+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 3,114, Level: 13

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    249
    Helped
    19 / 19
    Points
    3,114
    Level
    13

    lm723

    hello board, I want to regulate a SMPS which works @100kHz(~4A), I first look at lm338 that was terrible @100kHz even @10kHz so I ruled it out, then I remembered old good 723. I could not find the information I needed in datasheet, it says @10kHz ripple rejection is amazing 86db, well but what it would be around 100kHz? there was no graph. I can accept even 20db fall in 100kHz even 66 db is quite good for me. dose anybody have experience with 723 @HF? any rough estimate?
    thanks

    •   Alt1st January 2008, 14:20

      advertising

        
       

  2. #2
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 21,326, Level: 35
    E-design's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,279
    Helped
    244 / 244
    Points
    21,326
    Level
    35

    lm723 spice model

    The 723 is one of the lowest noise regulators around. I often use it in PLL-VCO designs. You can either build a test circuit or simulate the result or contact National and ask for the spec.

    Added after 1 hours 9 minutes:

    A quick simulation shows about 64dB rejection at 100k with a 4.7uF Cref cap connected. The simulation at 10k (84dB) is close to National's typical spec of 86dB


    1 members found this post helpful.

    •   Alt1st January 2008, 17:49

      advertising

        
       

  3. #3
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 3,114, Level: 13

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    249
    Helped
    19 / 19
    Points
    3,114
    Level
    13

    lm723 design

    Thanks a lot E-design, you helped much, but where you got the SPICE model, I use _altium designer which dose not have a model for 723. Thanks again.



    •   Alt2nd January 2008, 05:24

      advertising

        
       

  4. #4
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 21,326, Level: 35
    E-design's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,279
    Helped
    244 / 244
    Points
    21,326
    Level
    35

    lm723 circuit designs

    I used the model supplied with Proteus.

    Take a look at this page. This may also give you some ideas
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automat...ice/ripple.htm

    Here is model data for the 723
    .SUBCKT LM723 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13
    * CL CS IN- IN+ VREF VCC- VZ OUT VC VCC+ FRCO
    *
    AZ1 15 12 ZENER1
    J1 15 7 7 JMOD
    R1 15 16 15K
    Q1 16 16 17 QP1
    Q2 20 16 19 QP1
    Q3 20 21 7 QN1
    C1 20 21 5PF
    Q4 12 20 22 QN1
    Q5 12 22 23 QN1
    R2 23 6 100
    AZ2 25 6 ZENER1
    R3 21 25 30K
    R4 25 7 5K
    R5 12 17 500
    R6 12 19 25K
    R7 12 26 1K
    Q6 27 16 26 QP1
    Q7 23 27 28 QN1
    Q8 27 28 29 QN1
    R8 29 7 300
    R9 28 7 20K
    R10 12 30 1K
    Q9 13 16 30 QP1
    Q10 22 5 33 QN1
    Q11 13 4 33 QN1
    Q12 33 28 34 QN1
    R11 34 7 150
    Q13 12 13 36 QN1
    Q14 11 36 10 QOUT
    AZ3 10 9 ZENER2
    Q15 13 2 3 QN1
    R12 36 37 15K
    I1 0 9 0
    I2 0 2 0
    I3 0 3 0
    .MODEL QN1 NPN (BF=200 BR=2 RB=200 RC=200 RE=2 TF=0.35N IS=1E-14 VAF=125
    + CJE=1.0P VJE=0.7 MJE=0.33 CJC=0.3P
    + VJC=0.55 MJC=0.5 CJS=3.0P VJS=0.52 MJS=0.5 )
    .MODEL QP1 PNP (BF=50 BR=4 RB=300 RC=100 RE=10 TF=30N IS=1E-14 VAF=50
    + CJE=0.3P VJE=0.55 MJE=0.5 CJC=1.0P
    + VJC=0.55 MJC=0.5 CJS=3.0P VJS=0.52 MJS=0.5 )
    .MODEL QOUT NPN BF=80 RB=10 RC=5 IS=1E-16 VAF=50 CJE=10P CJC=10P
    + TF=3N TR=20N
    .MODEL JMOD NJF VTO=-3 RS=1 RD=1 LAMBDA=.02 CGS=5P CGS=5P
    .MODEL ZENER1 zener( v_breakdown=6.6 i_breakdown=0.02 r_breakdown=1.5 i_rev=1e-4 i_sat=1e-12)
    .MODEL ZENER2 zener( v_breakdown=6.2 i_breakdown=0.02 r_breakdown=1.5 i_rev=1e-4 i_sat=1e-12)
    .ENDS


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 3,114, Level: 13

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    249
    Helped
    19 / 19
    Points
    3,114
    Level
    13

    subckt lm723

    Thanks a lot E-Design I used simulation but I couldn't reproduce the values you mentioned ( 64d&84dB). can you please tell me how did you reached these fantastic values? did you use transient analysis and compared peak to peak values of input and output ripple?
    Thanks a lot again.



  6. #6
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 21,326, Level: 35
    E-design's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,279
    Helped
    244 / 244
    Points
    21,326
    Level
    35

    lm723 model

    Yes, but I did the simulation in Proteus. I can't say how accurate the model is, but it seemed to agree with the spec sheet results.
    The model data I posted is from National Instruments. I can't find the data for the Proteus model.
    What figures do you get?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 3,114, Level: 13

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    249
    Helped
    19 / 19
    Points
    3,114
    Level
    13

    lm723 multisim

    Hello E-Design, I think there is a problem with my simulation because results are not logical. I used the model you kindly mentioned. With 10kHz I get something about 61db attenuation but most bizarre thing is with 100kHz ripple I get ~66db attenuation which can't be true. One of my friends uses proteus, I asked him to simulate the same circuit with proteus, he said he couldn't get a meaningful result because output of 723 is a flat line with no ripple and no matter how much he zooms or how many volts of ripple he feeds the 723, it is flat! The only way he could detect a ripple is to lower supply voltage or increase ripple so much that in negative portion of sine wave total supply voltage be less than 2 volts more than output voltage, but this is not acceptable because supply voltage should have at least 3V margin relative to output. So we have three different results with the same model, yours, mine and my friend! while your results are very logical but I like to know how can I reproduce it at least in proteus of my friend this is the result of my simulation @10kHz
    Transient start time 5mSec
    Transient stop time 10mSec (5.5mSec for 100kHz)
    Transient step time 2uSec
    Transient max step time 2uSec
    All SPICE varables were in their default values except:
    I only incremented itteration limits:
    ITL1=300, ITL2=100, ITL4=500
    No Error and I got this(in second graph, every division is 250uV)

    for this circuit

    Thanks



  8. #8
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 21,326, Level: 35
    E-design's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,279
    Helped
    244 / 244
    Points
    21,326
    Level
    35

    lm723 pspice model

    I only used the 723 by itself set to 5V out and 15V in with 2v peak ripple. I also had the Fcomp cap set at 100pF

    The best way to find the truth is to email National Semiconductor and ask for the spec.

    Added after 3 hours 3 minutes:

    I did another simulation with Multisim with the model I gave you. The same setup but without any Fcomp. 5V out, 15V in 2Vp-p ripple. Results: 10k (85dB), 100k (66dB).

    Without C2 the results are: 10k (74dB), 100k (55dB). Note that I had to change the full scale range for the right side 10k meaurement.


    1 members found this post helpful.

+ Post New Thread
Please login

LinkBacks (?)