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Pathways to take an idea further - advice needed

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boylesg

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I have created a working prototype of a wifi enabled irrigation controller that includes soil moisture probes on individual stations rather than a single rain sensor.

At least in Australia there is no product that is remotely like it available from any of the big garden product manufacturers.

If you want to or need to know more about it then see here: https://www.gregsindigenouslandscapes.com.au/

But I have come to an impasse. How do I take it further? Among the things that are needed is a proper enclosure for it that give it a more polished appearance and I need to look into some PCB etching for a couple of parts that are currently bits of matrix board.

I have looked at kickstarter but I can't get past their verification stage and they seem to be asleep at the wheel - there is no way to get in contact with them other than through a support email address which they aren't responding to.

Are there any alternatives to kick starter for electronics projects?

I have a few other ideas as well - nothing that will change the world, rather that will just add a bit more convenience to life at less expense.
 

This is not an electronics problem, this is a Kickstarter problem. You could also look at Gofundme; don't know if they operate in Australia. But you also need to consider, besides an enclosure, regulations your product will have to meet. And liability. Etc.
 

Regulations?

Do you mean things like water restrictions? Because none of the other manufacturers take that into consideration with their products. Complying with water restrictions is entirely the responsibility of the user.

Mains power supply? That would be in the form of a retail plug pack and not something I would make. If low voltage garden lights etc are not subject to electrical safety regulations and home gardeners can diy to their hearts content, then my irrigation controller is no different as far as I can see.

Are there any others that I have not thought of?
 

Youre missing the point. Low voltage garden lights meet regulations by virtue of the fact they ARE low voltage. Of course home gardners can install whatever they want. But the company that SELLS the product hass to meet regulations. If you use an off-the-shelf power supply, that will save a lot if problems. If your whole system operates below some minimum voltage, then that problem is solved. But what about RF emissions? Susceptibility? What if a buyer cuts himself installing the system?
 

Youre missing the point. Low voltage garden lights meet regulations by virtue of the fact they ARE low voltage. Of course home gardners can install whatever they want. But the company that SELLS the product hass to meet regulations. If you use an off-the-shelf power supply, that will save a lot if problems. If your whole system operates below some minimum voltage, then that problem is solved. But what about RF emissions? Susceptibility? What if a buyer cuts himself installing the system?

I would use an off the shelf plug pack - it is the solution with the least hassle on many fronts - 24VAC.....identical to low voltage Christmas and garden lights.
RF emissions - it is a low power (5V) off the shelf wifi shield, not a HAM radio, so I don't see any problems there.
 

It's WIFI. It's probably got a microprocessor. You'd BETTER be concerned about emissions and susceptibility.
 

I don't know about Australia, but in the US there are regulations established by the FCC; in the EU there's CE. These organizations specify the requirements depending on what type of product you're trying to sell. Basically, your product can't emit or conduct RF above certain levels There may also be requirements on how your product responds to external upsets (susceptibility). Testing this is not easy and usually requires you send your product to a qualified lab for validation. Not inexpensive.
 

You can not sell a product that, for example, will interfere with TV receivers or mobile phones. In the EU the manufacturer takes responsibility for that. Without CE mark and proper certificates, you won't be able to export your products to the EU. So you should check your local regulations.
 

You can not sell a product that, for example, will interfere with TV receivers or mobile phones. In the EU the manufacturer takes responsibility for that. Without CE mark and proper certificates, you won't be able to export your products to the EU. So you should check your local regulations.

I suspect all that red tape has become rather redundant with the rise of ebay etc. For example I doubt that many Chinese manufacturers of gadgets take much notice of such EU, Au or US standards. And nor do millions of their customers in those countries.
 

I suspect all that red tape has become rather redundant with the rise of ebay etc. For example I doubt that many Chinese manufacturers of gadgets take much notice of such EU, Au or US standards. And nor do millions of their customers in those countries.

Sure, you can take your chances. For example, CE allows "self-certification" (I'm not sure of of the exact details). Basically, you can put the CE mark on your product without actually verifying it. But, if you exceed the limits, there are legal consequences.
 

This is probably a really nasty way to look at this, but if I was with a big company that produce irrigation systems and saw some upstart taking market share away and I suspected they were buying some cheap Chinese wifi modules that don't meat regulations, I might actually do some "testing" on their product to see if it might be violating regulations. If so I would report it (as an easy way to tank the small company) uncompetitive, perhaps, but then putting an untested produce with "fake" approval seals is pretty much being uncompetitive too.
 

This is probably a really nasty way to look at this, but if I was with a big company that produce irrigation systems and saw some upstart taking market share away and I suspected they were buying some cheap Chinese wifi modules that don't meat regulations, I might actually do some "testing" on their product to see if it might be violating regulations. If so I would report it (as an easy way to tank the small company) uncompetitive, perhaps, but then putting an untested produce with "fake" approval seals is pretty much being uncompetitive too.
I hear you.

I was just making an observation about ebay, so don't take it too seriously.

Look I am using these shields. Correct me if I am wrong but the ESP8266 chips used on them are industry standard. So I don't think I have too much to worry about.
The first type is sold by Jaycar Australia.

**broken link removed**

1Qtcc.jpg
 

So I don't think I have too much to worry about.
You still have plenty to worry about.

Is that shield certified to meet any EMI compliance? I doubt it. Any knucklehead can take some off-the-shelf components, put them on a PCB and sell them to you. Just because they're commercial parts doesn't mean the meet any requirements when they're connected together.
 

You still have plenty to worry about.

Is that shield certified to meet any EMI compliance? I doubt it. Any knucklehead can take some off-the-shelf components, put them on a PCB and sell them to you. Just because they're commercial parts doesn't mean the meet any requirements when they're connected together.

Jaycar is not an anonymous Chinese seller hiding behind ebay. I wouldn't think they would risk selling an item that does not meet the standards, in Australia in my case.

Am I mistaken here? Is American Jaycar equally a bunch of knuckleheads in this instance, by selling this shield?

- - - Updated - - -

If Jaycar sold a mains voltage plugpack, without confirming that it complies with Australian safety standards, and the product was reported or end up killing some one or was implicated in a house fire, then Jaycar would also be prosecuted. So surely Jaycar would have checked that the particular ESP shield they are selling complies with Australian emission standards?

Which would mean that, as a client of Jaycar with this bit of tech, my arse is covered by default?
 

Sorry, but no. Do you see any labeling on the shield identifying some compliance? This is no different than someone selling you an RF transmitter ic. The ic doesn't have to meet any requirements, it's the product it's incorporated intothat does. I'm afraid there's no easy way around this.

As far as the 'plugpack' goes, I'd wager that it DOES have some compliance marking on it.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't mean to discourage you, but these are just the facts of doing business. Now, I do know of some small companies here in the US that do sell products without FCC testing. But that's a chance they were willing to take.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess you could take the approach of buying a certified power adaptor, skip EMI testing and take the chance of getting a penalty or being shut down.
 

Well that is surprising! If a plug pack being sold has to comply western electrical safety standards then I don't see why an ESP shield or a wifi chip should not also comply with their relevant standards before they are used in a complete consumer product.

Sounds as though FCC testing industry needs to be opened up to more competition.
 

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