how to build your own motherboard?

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johncsl82

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

14 Oct 2004 16:54 how to make a motherboard

hi....

first of all, does anyone have any information on "how to" build a motherboard... Embarassed

second, if I'm trying to build an Intel chipset based motherboard where do I find information regarding those technical stuff like how the logic of chipset work and others......... Embarassed

Thanks

Last edited by johncsl82 on 27 Apr 2007 18:03; edited 1 time in total

davorin

Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 1396
Helped: 8

14 Oct 2004 17:07 build your own motherboard

If you talk about "Intel"...why haven't you visited their website and downloaded some pretty good design notes and reference schematics for their chipsets????

http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/index.htm?iid=PCG+devleftnav&

Out of curiousity: Since you asked in "Hobby projects"...

Do you really believe it makes sense to design own motherboard with 16 or even more layers? Probably would cost you seevral 1000 Euros to have a prototype...not to mention the cost of PCB design package able to do high-speed designs for PCI and SDR/DDR SDRAM...

johncsl82

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

14 Oct 2004 20:35 how to build a motherboard

ok...

Then how about building a SDRAM PC 133 MHZ.... Very Happy

I think that will be smaller and less complex Razz

Thanks

Last edited by johncsl82 on 27 Apr 2007 18:08; edited 1 time in total

cube007

Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 538
Helped: 12
Location: Australia

14 Oct 2004 21:38 make your own motherboard

Hello johncsl82,

What would you like to do with a thing which you can buy in every PC shop? Don’t you think it would be better to develop something different? Don’t misunderstand me. I find it very good if someone wants to learn by doing. But a PC system is a very complicated matter. What are your experiences in electronic design and what do you want to learn? Perhaps someone knows a very good topic for you.

Bye,
cube007

eltonjohn

Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 1751
Helped: 28

14 Oct 2004 22:10 building a motherboard

INTEL has "REFERENCE DESIGNS" .Entire boards already ready to go . These are basically provided for high volume OEM companies . Some of those boads are just produced "as is " .. if you buy Intel components .
So if you want to do your own mother board . Well this is a very intensive pcb routing job .. If is just to train yourself in PCB design is probably a great IDEA .. But if its is bussines one .Well is a bad one .Only the strong survived ..( past tense. this already is the future ) . This is a tough area .
(Even european chovinistic companies drop the ball long time ago !
AMSTRAD , BULL , TULIP ,,OLIVETTI ,, etc ) ...
why don't you take ballroom dancing lessons? is a better hobby !!
(just kiding.. but..???)

Cheers

onemilimeter

Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 65
Helped: 2

15 Oct 2004 4:46 build a motherboard

davorin wrote:

Do you really believe it makes sense to design own motherboard with 16 or even more layers?

My friend works in Intel motherboard design center. If I'm not mistaken, he told me before that motherboard pcb is usually 4 layers or 6 layers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

samcheetah

Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 672
Helped: 31
Location: Pakistan

15 Oct 2004 13:29 how to make your own motherboard

onemilimeter wrote:

My friend works in Intel motherboard design center. If I'm not mistaken, he told me before that motherboard pcb is usually 4 layers or 6 layers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong

u are right. i remember that the number of layers differs from company to company. some use more layers and some use less layers. thats one of the reason for the difference in the prices of motherboards based on the same chipset. and if u see the newer motherboard you will notice that the north bridges are now placed at an angle of 45 degrees. if im not mistaken this is a strategy to reduce the number of layers required. im sorry i dont have any info on this.

now back to johncsl82's question, it doesnt matter if u use SDRAM or 533MHz DDR-SDRAM, a motherboard is a very complex work of art!!! its not one of those usual DIY hobby projects that u can do with a 40W soldering iron and a tank of etchant. this is the ultra-high extreme in technology which needs an ultra-high extreme in investment. but its good to be curious about the working of motherboards. how the two chipsets do their jobs, how do they communicate, how the peripherals are connected bla bla. but for that u dont need to build a motherboard yourself. as already suggested u should visit INTEL's site and take a look at the documents there. and you should regularly read hardware reveiw articles to be updated all the time. u could start with http://www.tomshardware.com and http://www.anandtech.com

i hope that helps

Regnum

Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 264
Helped: 12
Location: Hurlingham

15 Oct 2004 15:57 how to make motherboard

great hobby dude! ...it's like building an spaceshuttle in the garage Very Happy

I'd recommend you to make a search on signal integrity (all terms), at the EDA E-books upload/download forum.

Good luck.

johncsl82

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

15 Oct 2004 17:07 create your own motherboard

geee

May I ask where can I find information regrading on building a 512MB SDRAM PC 133Mhz?

Like those RAM manufacturer Kingston and etc etc

Very Happy

Last edited by johncsl82 on 27 Apr 2007 18:06; edited 1 time in total

eltonjohn

Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 1751
Helped: 28

15 Oct 2004 17:34 make a motherboard

OK let's say that now you have completed the BOAD and is routed ..( in paper )
You know the price to make a low number of boards with that level of complexity .. maybe $100 a board .. next .. well because you intend to use latest and only avalaible chipset .. This come in fine pitch BGA packages .. Ok . so how are you going to solder those components ..Well you need a $100,000 Xray machine to be able to assemble your boards ..
So , still dreaming?

samcheetah

Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 672
Helped: 31
Location: Pakistan

15 Oct 2004 18:33 build motherboard

i would say that hear what eltonjohn is saying. if im not mistaken he has worked at INTEL so he can give u good advice.

but you should learn how all these thing are made. well, basically the RAM in PCs is DRAM (i.e. Dynamic RAM). the basic DRAM cell consists of a transistor and a capacitor. the charge on the capacitor translates to the bit stored in that cell. DRAM cells need to be continuously recharged because the capacitors loose charge with time. now lots of DRAM cells are combined together and fabricated onto an IC and a couple of those ICs are mounted on a small board with becomes the RAM. now if you want to know the processes of manufacturing and the materials used then you will have to consult alot of books. because the more deep you go into professional design, the more difficult it gets.

i hope that helps

hill

Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 285
Helped: 9

15 Oct 2004 21:55 making a motherboard

Perhaps he is talking about something like 'single board computer' which uses ealier x86 processor.

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johncsl82

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

16 Oct 2004 20:47 building your own motherboard

ya something like that Very Happy

so can I have those information about SD RAM circuitry...please Embarassed

Thanks

Last edited by johncsl82 on 27 Apr 2007 18:07; edited 1 time in total

Harbinger

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 1

31 Mar 2007 21:22 how to build your own motherboard

Of course professional mobo manufacturers use CAD software to design highly optimized multi-layered printed circuits for commercial production. However, most of that complexity comes from implimenting printed circuits in the first place. If all you want to do is build prototype mobos, you can greately simplify your designes and shorten you build times by using insulated jumper wires on the back for standard electronic componants (power regulating componants mainly). For SMDs, you can either try using sockets, which have bigger wires then the SMDs, or you can try using the same kind of fine insulated copper wire that they use to wined small electric motors as jumpers directly between the pins. As for a soldering iron, here's a link for a DIY hot air soldering iron for SMD work:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/07/how-to-make-a-surface-mount-soldering-iron/

I would start by deciding what kind of CPU(s) you want to use. Then decide what sort of memory and peripheral chips would best serve your CPU. The only thing you have to worry about then is making sure your voltages and currents are correct for the pins of all your chips which means reserving some space on your mobo for input power protection. All mobos have this - all those caps and inductor coils you see near your CPU helps protect against voltage and current spikes from your power supply.

nikhilele

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 543
Helped: 22
Location: Bangalore India

01 Apr 2007 4:44 design your own motherboard

hey john why don't you try to make PCI card with some unique functionality like controlling your home devices like lights,fans, etc with your PC.

Added after 31 seconds:

or some other utility card.

eltonjohn

Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 1751
Helped: 28

01 Apr 2007 5:23 making your own motherboard

PCI bus is meant to be a FAST BUS to access fast peripherals ..to use it to controll a switch is missing the big picture ...To design stuff is much about as designing useful solutions .Why bother with cumbersome solutions too heavy to implement that doesn't make sense .

nikhilele

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 543
Helped: 22
Location: Bangalore India

01 Apr 2007 6:02 motherboard designing

don't limit your self to switch i am talking about complete home automation you can include X10, you can include RFID and Biometric access to your place all things can be done by single PCI card. having 2 usb port, 2 or 3 serial port, 10 to 20 i/o pins etc the list is endless.

Santa

Joined: 17 May 2001
Posts: 74
Helped: 1

01 Apr 2007 8:01 how to create a motherboard

Harbinger,

When you thing you may apply "hobby" methods like floating wires in a design
using signal edges in the GHz range, immediately forget about it. Even bringing
power to the CPU will be impossible. Decoupling lengths to the lowest valued
caps are in the range 2 to 3mm + planes with lots of stitch vias.

I am routinely using the software and equipment needed for designing and
producing 6 layer dense and fast prototype PCBs.

However, I would never try to make a motherboard. For example, making thru
vias is something. Making microvias or blind vias is totally another story.
Soldering a 0.5mm pitch big BGA with your heat pencil is probably going to be
great fun for the chip manufacturer. Even more if you can't produce a soldermask
and paste stencil first.

Sorry to ruin your hopes.

enigma460

Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 76
Helped: 3

02 Apr 2007 15:53 how to build a motherboard from scratch

Here you go:D http://www.cs.binghamton.edu/~reckert/sbc.htm

I think that most here are saying, that for the average hobbyist it's a waste of time trying to build a PC motherboard from scratch. You could have built the original PC back in the 80's using wirewrap techniques but not today.

Have fun trying

jhallows

Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 88
Helped: 3

13 Apr 2007 2:45 how to build motherboard

A more Updated Link to wire wrap a motherboard would be: http://www.cate.fiu.edu/class/files/micros_lab/index.html.

The 80486 is probably the last generation you could get by with wire wrapping, (Lower clock than 33mhz that is).

Even so the original message is so old that I doubt the author cares about designing a motherboard.

wringwrath

Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 1

21 Apr 2007 2:04 make motherboard

I realize this post is old, but I was hoping those that still might be perusing this post might be able to answer my question. I have five or so motherboards that have one thing another wrong with them, can you and is it conceivable to mix and match and make one good motherboard out of components of others?

jhallows

Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 88
Helped: 3

21 Apr 2007 22:36 how to make motherboards

Quote:

I have five or so motherboards that have one thing another wrong with them, can you and is it conceivable to mix and match and make one good motherboard out of components of others

It depends what is wrong with them and if you have the proper tools. For the chipsets you can probably swap and reball the BGA's. For most other parts you can probably buy new ones. PC motherboards aren't really worth fixing. A better choice would be Laptop motherboards.

The steps are pretty much the same.

1) Physically inspect motherboard and look for any damage. If the circuit board has major trace damage forget it and chuck the board out.
2) If a socket, (like a PCI socket or a CPU socket etc.), is damage you probably need a soldering pot to desolder and resolder a new one safely without destroying the motherboard.
3) Check Voltage at the CPU socket and throughout the MB.
Usually Bad cap's or burnt out Voltage Reg. If the coil looks burnt you must rewind them. For voltage at the CPU socket, you need to make a special Jig to jumper the voltage selection and to check the voltage. You can either buy it or make it.
4) Stick a P.O.S.T. card and see if all check outs, (this will show you if the chipset is bad).
5) Bios could be corrupted so you may have to reflash

This is a simplified approach. A Oscilloscope would be pretty handy to check the voltage swings from the voltage regulators.

cameo_2007

Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 439
Helped: 17
Location: 13.04°N80.17°E

27 Apr 2007 9:50 build own motherboard

my doubt is not that..had internet and of course,EDA board existed way back in 1970's??
if no, how come jhallows joined on 1 Jan1970..
kidding guyss..

ehico16

Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 66

27 Apr 2007 14:40 design a motherboard

is there anybody that can really built motherboard i think is about how to assemble

cameo_2007

Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 439
Helped: 17
Location: 13.04°N80.17°E

27 Apr 2007 15:25 how to design a motherboard

assembling is fine upto some extent if you have got the ckt design,board design and the board ready.
But the topic of the day is to build it from the scratch which is a herculean task with bare hands.

johncsl82

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

27 Apr 2007 17:57 building motherboard

Thank you all for reply.....

Wow after so long my thread still active Very Happy

and thank you all for the information Very Happy

cplia

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Helped: 6
Location: Europe

27 May 2007 9:56 how to make a motherboard

Where can someone purchase a mini(small) size
motherboard and make a mini-PC?
I found info about such thing here : www dot mini-itx dot com

However, I am wondering how easy is to add additional hardware (HDD, monitors, etc) on this platform

cameo_2007

Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 439
Helped: 17
Location: 13.04°N80.17°E

28 May 2007 4:42 build motherboard from scratch

mini tx shud be fine.
if you know the in & out of normal mother boards and assembling,its very easy to do with this.

Drago

Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 54
Helped: 4
Location: Bulgaria

29 Jan 2008 13:23 how to make my own motherboard

well, I've built one. It is exactly 133 SDRAM Smile

as johncsl82 mentioned, but it is not x86 compatible. it is based on a DSP - C6711 and it works fine. It has AC97 audio too.
http://ddeood.hit.bg/hardware.html