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orikfa
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 83
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 11 Oct 2004 23:03 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| it's illgal to ask about your marital status |
In some countries not
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I don't get it, does the company pay more to married employees in some contries or what do you mean? |
yes, the company has to pay an add to the employee.
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orikfa
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 83
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| 14 Oct 2004 16:50 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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WHO can say me more details about France?
thanks
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Yolanda
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 5
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| 18 Oct 2004 10:39 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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I'm working here as IC designer but in a University.
Here in Spain you don't have many possibilities of working in Analog design because here there are any foundries!!. Only some companies like Alcatel or Indra have an small department who made this, but I say small so you have few possibilities to get employed.
There are another small companies which design circuits but with the same problem, only a few employees.
The last possibility is to work in a University like me, we design circuits for another companies and for European projects but the salaries are very low, I'm talking about 1000 Euros per month.
I've been working here for 2 years and I am thinking of looking for something better in Europe or USA.
Is it better to work here in Europe or in the USA?, Where are the highest salaries?, and what is more important, Have Europeans any possibility of been employed there?
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djalli
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 887
Helped: 15
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC 20500
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| 19 Oct 2004 2:00 Salaries in Europe |
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Yolanda, is true you get a good salary if you find a job in IC in USA for the same position in IC in East Asia or as a matter of fact more than Europe too but is getting worse to get a job now in USA.
It has started 20years ago.
Process called "outsourcing". Americans (guess which ones!) found out that if you automatize to a certain degree, have people with technical knowledge in these countries supervising production rather than having US engineers do it is cheaper for them. Production happens there rather than USA.
It is not humanely to say why but they depend on those jobs for their economies. Factories pay taxes, employ hundreds etc.
But at the same time a lot of American engineer industry jobs were lost.
What is true is IC designing (R&D area) is still here in US and so are the headquarters of each company. They design here, test here but production happens in Asia or Latin America.
Also University Academia people here in USA is also involved in designing process for corporations. Fairchild Semiconductor for example designs here in US, tests here but production takes place entirely in Indonesia, Malaysia or Tawain.
You better have an Indonesian dream rather than an American dream Yolanda!
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SISWANTO
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 106
Location: Nirwana
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| 19 Oct 2004 5:12 Salaries in Europe |
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I'm from Indonesia,
Electrical enginnering fate in Indonesia is not better.
I get around US$ 300 /month only,
Sis
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eltonjohn
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 1558
Helped: 22
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| 19 Oct 2004 6:05 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Wow how sad is for me to see talented people not being rewarded with the means to live a decent life . It seems to me that electronic engineers should try in this hard times to become independent and do their own products. I read about that spanish gal not finding a place where to practice her art . It reminds me of an argetinan girl that i met years ago she was a talented painter and to make a leaving she had to clean houses .Years later i met her again and ask her what if she had been painting lately ..She said " I LOST MY HAND" ( she meant my art) ..Those words still resonate in me .. When she said them was like i'm blind now so i can't .. If somebody can't employ you keep the dream alive ..i try .
cheers friends
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Yolanda
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 5
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| 19 Oct 2004 9:32 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hello again,
I've read the two posts after mine and I would like to make some remarks and questions.
I'm happy working here in the University, this is the kind of job I like (designing and making layouts and measurements of LNA's, attenuators, mixers..in monolithic technology). The problem here is that our salaries are low, and that we only have the job if the Unioversity is given a project which employ us, so our contracts are only for a year, then if there is work to do another year, so you don't feel safe. Moreover if you are fired you don't have the opportunity to find a similar job in your country which make things even harder.
And I have some questions to the person (sorry, I don't remember your name) who has broke my heart  (with that of forgetting my American dream).
I don't understand very well what you say. You said designing and testing is made in USA and production in Asia, isn't it?, but what I really do is designing monolithic circuits is SiGe technology, making layouts and measurings. Don't you think I would have any opportunity?, I have look for some posts there and they ask for people to do this, but my question is if they would employ an Spanish when there are millions of Americans engineers.
Thank you for your help and opinions.
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Puppet1
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 881
Helped: 2
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| 19 Oct 2004 22:18 Re: Salaries in Europe - How about Germans ? Any Germans ? |
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Right now in the USA, if you do not have an APPLICABLE and RELEVANT Master's or PhD in Electronics, there is no hope of getting hired -- or if you have more than 5 years experience.
Very Challenging environment, high unemployment in technology areas and much competition.
Anyway, we have not heard from any Germans here in the salary survey, any input, I am interested....
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djalli
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 887
Helped: 15
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC 20500
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| 20 Oct 2004 3:32 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| Yolanda wrote: |
I don't understand very well what you say. You said designing and testing is made in USA and production in Asia, isn't it?, but what I really do is designing monolithic circuits is SiGe technology, making layouts and measurings.
Don't you think I would have any opportunity? |
Hello Yolanda
I am so sorry I have put in such discouraging words. I am so sorry. I wish you the best there is in this life.
There's nothing new under the sun, so the saying goes. Well, I don't know about that. I speak my mind, honestly and without any gloves. It is not anymore the USA of 10 years ago things we used to read in papers or told in stories. Today is differennt.
Not to dissuade you but to let you know what I see with my own eyes. I am propapbly wrong, who knows it.
One thing I am very sure! You must try harder, that is , one in your position can make in universities average about 55,000 per year as start.
Yolanda wish you the best!
djalli
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maestor
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 173
Helped: 1
Location: España
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| 20 Oct 2004 9:41 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hi guys,
I am currently working in UK; I graduated 5 years ago in Spain (MSc + Master Thesis in electronics... whatever!) and decided to come to UK with my partner (now my wife). What a nice story, yeah right!
I came in 1999, summer, they were contracting 'almost' everybody. I had 3 interviews = 3 job offers as FPGA design Engineer. 2 were blue chip companies; I got a job, nice!
We had bonus, first year great, 2nd not bad, 3rd peanuts, 4th nada...5th... bonus?
The first 2-3 years were great, a lot of R&D, new projects here and there, training everywhere... 4th year it was only customer support, fix bugs, add extra features...5th year is slowly starting to show some light at the end of tunnel...we'll see!
They closed a Motorol@ plant axing 300 jobs round the corner, C(at)dence gone, @gilent announced lots of redundancies, NEC in Livingston, Nor!el in Ireland...
It's just disheartening 
Some collegues have been made redundant, but I would say 80% of them have found a new job, similar position in UK or The States. The remaining 20% have set up their own business and they are doing all right.
I am still here. For how long,  who knows? Things are still looking all right but it's amusing how fast things can change every quarter. If the big boss in The States says...we are closing down and moving to...let's say Malaysia or Fillipinnas then we are stuffed...that's life in the private sector!
Yolanda, I've been where you are! a couple of friends are finishing now the PhD in Spain and then what? there r no jobs for them in Spain afert that so hopefully they will start working in the Uni. I would recommend you to go to The States and at least try it! not risk your current position, leave in summer for a month or something and go for it. Your English is better than their Spanish so no problem with that.
Regards guys,
-maestor
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guybrush
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 25
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| 21 Oct 2004 11:31 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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In Italy 1500€/month for a 4 year digital engineer in a medium company.
But now the company is trying to use as much as possible the outsourcing, so the number of project really developped in the company decreasee and we work more with paper than with CAD or oscilloscope
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Yolanda
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 5
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| 22 Oct 2004 19:15 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hello everybody,
Thank you very much for your answers, I'm seeing the light. It's not easy when you don't have contact wiht other companies or people working in the same things as you.
Some of your answers have discouraged me, but another ones have make me see thing more clear.
An answer to Maestor, first of all thank you for you courage (vamos, por animarme), and then what do you mean with going to the States and try?, they are quite big and I don't know what should I do, my first idea was to send some resumes from here vis Internet, is it the best way or not?, What did you do to get your job in UK?, I would be grateful if you answer my doubts, I don't have a clear idea about how is the best way to get a job abroad.
Thank you!!!!!!!! 
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nerd77
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 276
Helped: 1
Location: Germany
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| 22 Oct 2004 20:48 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Anyway, we have not heard from any Germans here in the salary survey, any input, I am interested....
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Here is some response from Germany:
I am no EDA design engineer (at least: no more). I work in telecommunication market as Quality engineer (Software Testing). My employer is a consulting company, who has about 500 employees in Europe, all specialized in telecommunications and finance service provider market. Typicaly, I work as sub-contractor / consulting engineer at telecommunication vendors, network operators etc.
Professional experience / education: Master degree in Computer Science since 10 Years, but more than 5 years additional professional experience beneath that (I have had my own IT development company before deciding to study)
Salary: gross 80K EUR / year plus overtime premium (I expect 25% overtime working). This would be 100K EUR/year, including 30 days annual paid vacancies. As taxes, health insurance etc are pretty high, there migt be 50%-60% net cash remaining.
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Sergiu_Q
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 259
Helped: 6
Location: Romania
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| 22 Oct 2004 21:28 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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nerd77 ...nice salary
for you to work is a pleasure ...but for me , with 250$/month it's not so easy ...i will go to germany
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nerd77
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 276
Helped: 1
Location: Germany
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| 22 Oct 2004 22:26 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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250$ / month - too less for Germany. The monthly rent for my appartment is 470 EUR - and thats really cheap for a 70 qm residence.
Since introduction of EUR, costs have doubled: 10 years ago, i have to pay the same amount in DEM (exchange rate: 1 EUR equ. to 2 DEM)
unfortunately (from my position: fortunately), the market in Germany is very small for that kind of skill I am able to offer and what is requested ... and unemployment rate in Germany is pretty high (12%)
If you have some experience in project management, quality assurance, a well understanding in commercial aspects of your work, and a lot of business contacts, that would help you a little bit to find some adequate work in Germany. Speaking German is necessary, speaking english is also some kind of necessary.
some of my collegues at "my customer" (where I do my consultancy things) work self-employeed. The rate for our kind of work is between 70 and 90 EUR/hour (expect 2000 hours / year you have to work as external contractor). But it tends to go down, the telcos are cutting of the hourly rate continously down to 50-70 EUR / hour
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maestor
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 173
Helped: 1
Location: España
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| 25 Oct 2004 10:46 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hi guys,
Yolanda, The States are big as you said, Let's talk about the UK.
When I came here it was easier. I had a look on the web from Spain, found some uk job sites (w-w-w.jobsite.co.uk for example) and put my CV on it. There are more, just have a look.
I got a couple of emails back from a recruitment agency(PM me if you want details, no externally just in edaboard.com, I don't check the external email any more), they had some clients looking for people with my skills. They asked me in what area I was interested for... and they arranged 3 interviews for me. I arrived to UK on the 18th of July and had an interview on the 19 th they came and picked me up by car and all that stuff, we all like that  . In C(at)dence they used to pay even the flight trip, somehow I don't think they do that any more. Don't know!
It's VERY important the language, if you spend your interview with the 'smilie' face of 'IDon'tUnderstandShoitButCarryOnAndI'llKeepSmiling' then things will not go well.
You don't lose anything for putting your CV up there and if you get any phone calls then go for it. It's worth it.
These guys are not bad either:
h**p://www.electronicsweekly.co.uk/
--maestor
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Puppet1
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 881
Helped: 2
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| 25 Oct 2004 14:16 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hey Nerd77,
Is it normal to have that salary in Germany, are salaries usually that high.. would you say the highest in Europe by your estimation ?
I would imagine an IC Designer would make quite a bit as well.
Thanks
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XNOX_Rambo
Joined: 13 Jul 2002
Posts: 430
Helped: 86
Location: Far out, man!
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| 25 Oct 2004 14:40 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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In Sweden more and more jobs are being outsourced to India, China
and former Easter European countries, so we are expecting our
salaries to plummet - and taxation and unemployment to rise radically.
/Rambo (unemployed for 1,5 years, ex-salary of 4500€/mo)
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Puppet1
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 881
Helped: 2
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| 25 Oct 2004 15:15 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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did you say 4500EURO a month ?
WOW.
Well isn't a part of the European Union agreement to let Eastern European countries into the country and outsource jobs to those countries (Poland, Hungary etc) and offset them from high paying places like Germany, France, UK etc...
Outsourcing is not just an American Problem, the European Union I would imagine would love to do it too !
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XNOX_Rambo
Joined: 13 Jul 2002
Posts: 430
Helped: 86
Location: Far out, man!
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| 25 Oct 2004 16:31 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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After taxes I was left with 2200Euro/mo and my rent was 600Euro/mo,
so I was doing allright, I think. But now I'm living off my savings so I
guess things ballance out in the end...
I don't mind outsourcing to Eastern Europe, as the guys there seem to
me as being very well educated and willing to work hard.
Here I worked with a strange mixture of good people and lazy nutcases.
It goes without saying that we didn't accomplish anything...
It seems that jobs in Sweden in the future will mostly be in the
"McDonald's sector" - but who will make mony to buy the burgers...?
/Rambo
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sobol
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Poland
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| 25 Oct 2004 19:49 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Thanks Rambo for your opinion about Eastern Europe. I'm from Poland and I earn about 400-500E/month (on my hand). I've got 2+ years experience in PCB designing and i work as jr. engineer. I am finishing Technican University (last year). For example my friend is a life-saver in ambulance and he earns about 200E/m. So i am pleased from my salary. I thing also that in Western Europe i could earn much more. In Poland in electronics it could be difficult to earn more then 1000E/m.
regards
sobol
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otomi
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 4
Helped: 1
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| 25 Oct 2004 20:03 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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In my case. Four years experience in electronics. I work in Spain. I earn 1500Eur a month. Things here are not easy for engineers. A house cost more than 200.000 Eur also.
best regards,
otomi
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hot_chmock
Joined: 22 Jun 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Where it is nice
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| 25 Oct 2004 20:37 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Hi,
I'm an executive from Western origine and work in Eastern Europe for an Western company.
Yes, people here are really willing to work and they are verry wel educated, the level is the same than in Western Europe.
A skilled engineer here get 500-600 Euro bruto per month.
My manager with the bigest salary in my factory get 1.500 Euro bruto and a small company car and he use to say to me that he is "rich" here with such a salary, he manage 400 people.
If Western Europe does not change the mentality, (work less, get more money, have more free time) there will be in 2010 20% jobless people over there.
hc
Last edited by hot_chmock on 25 Oct 2004 22:57; edited 1 time in total |
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nerd77
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 276
Helped: 1
Location: Germany
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| 25 Oct 2004 22:19 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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@puppet1
| Quote: |
Hey Nerd77,
Is it normal to have that salary in Germany, are salaries usually that high.. |
No, its not usual, its pretty high, and i do not know how long i may utilize this.
My client (where i am working at) is one of europes big telecom companies. The sallary for their clerical workers for same work is about 65K / year (dont know much about their additional social benefits they achieve). As they are not allowed to perform some overtime work, they would never reach the salary i will receive.
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| would you say the highest in Europe by your estimation ? |
Germany is realy one of the countries with a high salary. But the salary in swizerland and sweden are also very high as i have heard.
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| I would imagine an IC Designer would make quite a bit as well. |
I habve no information about this market
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djalli
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 887
Helped: 15
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC 20500
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| 27 Oct 2004 12:30 Salaries in Europe |
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http://www.engineersalary.com/default.asp nice wage calculator for US cities
http://www.wageweb.com/eng1.htm - 2003 survey for USA.
To get an approximate in normal US economy let say: three years ago economy was better so add 5-10k to that figure to get an approximate what wages can be.
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Puppet1
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 881
Helped: 2
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| 27 Oct 2004 18:20 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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Personally, I am finding that there a lot more analog and rf ic design jobs in europe (also mmic, millimeter wave) then there are in north america (usa).
that sort of started this post !
but problem is, they will never tell americans that !
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Puppet1
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 881
Helped: 2
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| 28 Oct 2004 17:18 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| I am still looking for more salaries for France and Germany in the field of RFIC Design... also more from the UK (Ireland, Scotland, England)
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orikfa
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 83
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| 28 Oct 2004 18:15 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| what about Switzerland salaries and EE jobs oppurtunities?
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altivec
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 20
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| 30 Oct 2004 11:34 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| Puppet1 wrote: |
| I am still looking for more salaries for France and Germany in the field of RFIC Design... also more from the UK (Ireland, Scotland, England) |
in France, salary for a recently graduated electrical engineer is oftenly independant of his field. between 28k€ and 32k€ gross per year, with a factor 0.75 to obtain netto salary. also there are taxes to pay, which represent 1.5 or 2 month of salary to pay each year to the French State.
Last edited by altivec on 01 Nov 2004 10:28; edited 1 time in total |
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triquent
Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 166
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| 01 Nov 2004 2:50 Re: Salaries in Europe |
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| how about new zealand? is there any job opportunities in IC design?
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