which is the best soldering & desoldering stations?

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mbyka

Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 509
Helped: 1

27 Apr 2004 22:53 best soldering station

hi all
Which is the best soldering & desoldering iron stations systems

Antex www.antex.co.uk
JBC www.jbctools.com
ERSA http://www.ersa.de/en/index.html
and Weller www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm

I want to buy antex products

flatulent

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4867
Helped: 324
Location: Middle Earth

27 Apr 2004 23:54 best soldering iron

Metcal was the front runner for many years. Because of this there are many used older models for low prices on the auction web sites.

gorkin

Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 677
Helped: 11

28 Apr 2004 0:02 best solder station

I use weller soldering station for many years without any problem...it´s a good tool!

Beepster

Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 146
Helped: 5
Location: unknown

30 Apr 2004 15:52 best soldering stations

For hand work nothing is better than a Super Soldapullt. It's a spring driven vaccum hand tool anout 12-20$ US
Keep it clean & lubed

ME

Joined: 14 Mar 2002
Posts: 1523
Helped: 13

30 Apr 2004 18:00 best desoldering station

mbyka wrote:

hi all
Which is the best soldering&desoldering iron stations systems

Antex www.antex.co.uk
JBC www.jbctools.com
Ersa www.ersa.com
and Weller www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm

I want to buy antex products

I would say that none of the above is the best.
I think Metcal is the best you can get.
I have a lot of experince with both Weller and Metcal and I must say that Metcal is much better than Weller.
Once we only used Weller in the service department of a big company I used to work for, but then we tried one Mectal MX-500TS Soldering/SMT Rework System with Talon Handpiece and now we have replaced all Weller stations replaced all Weller stations with Metcal MX-500.
One of best thing about Metcal is that is so easy to change the tip, you don't have to unscrew anything.
Another greart feature is that is warm almost the same second as you turn it on, there is also no problem if you have to heat up a very big solder joint.
But the thing I like most about Metcal is that you hold it like a pencil.
I was used to Weller, so it was a little stange at the beginning, but when you first get used to it, it is much better than the traditional solder grip with a long soldertip.
Nothing really compares to Metcal in my opinion.
Our company have saved a lot of time and $$ on bronken PCB's pads after moving from Weller to Metcal. We replace a lot of PLLC SMD packages in after sales serviceing and and the number of broken PCB pads went down after changin to Metcal, so the price differerence between Weller and Metcal didn't really matter in the long run.
Link: http://www.metcal.com

But Metcal is also quite expensive compared to Weller or at leat it used to be when I worked there, I don't know the prices now.

There is also another interesting company not mentioned yet: PACE
http://www.paceusa.com/_ShowSystems.asp?ProductSetID=1
I haven't tried PACE personally (only looked at it), but another person from my former company tried it and he preferred Metcal, I haven't met anyone who didn't thought Metcal was the best.
It looks like PACE have copided many of the Metcal ideas at the PACE HW 100 and HW 200 HeatWise solder stations.

I don't like Antex at all, I my opinion it is only good for hobby use and not for complicated SMD soldering. The only advantage: it's cheap. I think Antex is the worst of the ones mentioned.

In my opinin Weller is also a good solder iron, but it looks like both PACE, JBC and Ersa have improved the last years.
Antex is still the poor old "hobby" design.

If you want the best go for Metcal, if you wan't a cheaper alternative you should look into alternatives from Weller, PACE, JBC and Ersa. It would be best totry the different brand before you choose.
If you are in a big company, the distributors will come out and demonstrate them for free.
Otherwise go a electronics trade show to try them or try them at your local reseller if you can.

I only have a lot of experince with Metcal, Weller an Antex.
Here is my experinces with the three brands:

Weller:
In my experince the Weller soldertips are very good, long lasting and fairly priced. You can buy 3rd party soldertips for weller, that are much cheaper than the original ones, but they don't last quite as long as the original Weller tips. In my old company we used the 3rd party tips and was satisfied with them and we saved some $$ at the same time.
Weller is a respected brand and probably the most sold quality solder iron in the world (at least it is in my part of the world).

Metcal:
Metcal solder tips are very expensive but they com in all shapes and sizes and it is very fast to change from one tip to another and the new one heats up in no time. The heat power is very well regulated and there is much more heat power reserves for big solder joint than the other brands because of the special heating technology.
Some Metcal soldertips can fail after a short while, but we got all the defect soldertips replaced for free if it was not because of normal wear.
Automatic time-out increases tip cartridge life. The MX-500P power supply senses whether the tip cartridge has been used during the past 30 minutes, and automatically shuts off to maximize the life of your tip cartridges.

Antex:
I think the soldertips are of poor quality and they don't last long, the design is very unhandy. I would only use Antex for simple solder and desolder jobs. As a professional serviceman it would never use Antex.

At home I have a normal 50W 24V Weller solder-iron and is quite satisfied with. I think it is the best in that price range. Allthough I would like to own a Metcal solder/desolder station at home if I could afford it.
I'm considering to buy a used Metcal, but Metcal is not as known in Europe as in USA, so maybe I have to buy it at eBay from USA, but I would prefer to buy it from my own country if I can find it.

Last edited by ME on 30 Apr 2004 19:22; edited 1 time in total

flatulent

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4867
Helped: 324
Location: Middle Earth

30 Apr 2004 18:54 the best soldering station

What makes Metcal so good is their special tips that maintain temperature within 1 C during soldering. They inductively heat the tip and the tip is made from a special metal alloy which changes its mu with temperature. Even though the patent has expired, no other company has been able to reproduce the alloy.

davorin

Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 1396
Helped: 8

30 Apr 2004 20:03 soldering station best

Just looked up the SP200 from Metcal...

around 450 Euros from distributor...excluding any soldering tip...
so definitively NOT for hobbyists (o;

But remembering tried one many years ago...really leightweight and awesome heatup time...hbut back then we only used bigg-pads through-hole components..so weller was just fine (o;

Wonder why at least a standard tip isn´t included...

flatulent

Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4867
Helped: 324
Location: Middle Earth

30 Apr 2004 21:06 best soldering pencil

The reason a standard tip is not included is that they make dozens of tips and they all sell so it would be a waste of money for the customers to have to pay for a tip they never use.

ME

Joined: 14 Mar 2002
Posts: 1523
Helped: 13

30 Apr 2004 21:21 best desoldering

davorin wrote:

I just saw the new Metcal PS-800 for 259 € at a European distibutor, it seems like a better deal for hobbyists. They also use a new tip design for PS-800, which makes the tips cheaper.

Quote:

Minimal Cost Of Ownership

The PS-800 Soldering System employs replaceable heater tips rather than cartridges, making cost of ownership extremely competitive. The unique two-piece design separates the heater coil from the tip. The long-life heater coil remains in the handle,while replaceable tips are easily removed and replaced. Most importantly,the cost of the heater tips is comparable to that of conventional tips.

If 259 € is still too much I would reccomend Weller. It's cheaper and still good quality.
Don't waste money on Antex allthough it is cheaper than Weller.
After looking closer at JBC and ERSA I wouldn't choose any of them either. I rember using a JBC recently at my friends house and it was poor quality.

That leaves only three choises left:
Metcal
PACE
Weller

Metcal is expensive and it seems Weller makes better solder irons than PACE in the cheap price range, but if you want to spend a little more, some of the more expensive PACE models is also an alternative.

For hobby electronics I would reccomend Weller WTCPT / WTCPTD at the bottom of this page:
www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=WEL003&att1=Soldering%20Stations&att2=Industrial%20Soldering%20Stations
This is the cheapest Industrial Weller solder station with temperature controlled by the tip selection. A ferrormagnetic temperature sensor in the tip controls the tip temperature - no controls are necessary.
Tips available in 3 standard temperature ranges: 600°F, 700°F, and 800°F (316°C, 371°C and 427°C).
If you want it even cheaper you should buy the TC201T Replacement Soldering Pencil for WTCPT Soldering Station without any soldering station and then buy a seperate 1.75A (min.) 24V transformer and put it in a housing with a fuse. This is much cheaper than buying the original Weller solder station / transformer. Many companies choose to do so and that is what I have done at home too. Then you get a very cheap quality solder station.
If you want to have a solder station with manually controlled temperature

TC201T Replacement Soldering Pencil for WTCPT Soldering Station: www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=WEL012&att1=Soldering%20Stations&att2=Replacement%20Soldering%20Pencils
PH1201ESD Iron Stand: www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=WEL011&att1=Accessories&att2=Stands
PT Series tips: www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=WEL007&att1=Tips%20and%20Nozzles&att2=PT%20Series
Weller Electronic Soldering and Desoldering Tools Catalouge: www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/cf_files/act_download.cfm?type=Literature&filename=550147.pdf

I would never buy any of the Weller Consumer Soldering Stations but would rather stick to the TC201T Industrial Replacement Soldering Pencil and buy a standard 24V 2A tranformer, and a housing with a fuse and a 3 or 5 pin DIN socket to fit the solder iron plug. The Consumer Soldering range is a poor quality compared to TC201T, but TC201T is still cheap enough for hobbyists.
Here is the original Weller schematic, as you can see it is easy to buy your own transformator and build the circuit.
The schematic is taken from this pdf: www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/cf_files/act_download.cfm?type=Parts_Lists&filename=WTCPT_OI_PL.pdf

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ME

Joined: 14 Mar 2002
Posts: 1523
Helped: 13

01 May 2004 0:44 best solder iron

There is also a company called Edsyn that makes solder and desolder systems:
http://www.edsyn.com

BigBoss

Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Posts: 1027
Helped: 59
Location: Earth

01 May 2004 2:03 best solder stations

Weller is the Best...

I have been using Weller since 1983 and nothing happened...

Recently I use this one and I highly recommend..

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/cf_files/act_download.cfm?type=Hi_Res_Images&filename=WSL_300.jpg

TheDane

Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 20

10 May 2004 14:58 best soldering irons

I recently switched to Metcal, and I'm not going back to Weller.

Weller is ok for smaller projects with mainly leaded components. If you're dealing with a lot of <small> SMD you'll have to work a bit harder with Weller than with Metcal.

toonafishy

Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 461
Helped: 25
Location: Earth

10 May 2004 17:03 best soldering tools

For hand soldering its hard to beat the Metcal but $$$. For soldering big BGAs, I would suggest the Sniper.

mbyka

Joined: 12 May 2002
Posts: 509
Helped: 1

10 May 2004 22:14 how can choose the best soldering

ok thanks all

But I want to buy antex.How is this?

www.antex.co.uk

or

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borisov57

Joined: 11 May 2001
Posts: 43
Helped: 2

11 May 2004 9:01 desoldering stations

Never spend any money on Weller desoldering, and if you get it for free, throw it away. You will save yourself a lot of time and nerves.

davorin

Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 1396
Helped: 8

14 Jun 2004 23:56 top soldering irons

Just heard today that it takes at least up to end of August to get the new PS800 soldering station from Metcal here in my country...*aaarrrgghhh

Seems Metcal is 2000 units behind in production..

Someone knows a company who has them on stock?

Sebi

Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: Hungary

15 Jun 2004 8:05 expensive soldering irons

I agree, borisov57. The vacuum-pump can only cooling the tip, but not give enough vacuum

betanorm

Joined: 13 Aug 2001
Posts: 44

15 Jun 2004 10:32 best desoldering

A suggestion for hobby user:

If you don't have enough funds to buy a good soldering station, I have an advice which worked for years without any problem.

I put an 1N4148 diode on the tip of a cheap mains power solder, and connected it to a comparator circuit with a relay out to the solder. The diode was in a silicon cable which is resistant to heat and wrapped aroun to the tip. There should be a histeresis in the comparator circuit...

betanorm

delay

Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 219
Helped: 3
Location: Van Allen Belt

29 Jul 2004 19:33 ideal solder station

imho Hakko 92X series.
Goot too has some good ones.

delay (delayed by technology)

rauol

Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 363
Helped: 11

30 Jul 2004 18:25 best soldering iron stations

I had two Antex soldering stations with sliding Potentiometer for temperature control (10 years back )
and they worked fine for around 5 to 6 years .
But tip changing was difficult, it was a slip on kind of arrangemet with a clip.

TekNoir

Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 4
Helped: 1

28 Apr 2005 14:41 the best soldering iron

I just started learning about electronics last year and at the time I bought myself a very cheap soldering iron to start out with. (When I say "cheap," I mean that I gave the clerk a ten-dollar bill and received change back in exchange for the item.) I would like to upgrade, preferably to a complete station, but I am having a slight bit of difficulty with advertising terms.

What confuses me is the connection between temperature and advertised wattage.

From my understanding, it takes a tip temperature of somewhere around 361F (183C) to melt 63/37 solder efficiently. However, a great number of soldering irons and soldering stations, as well, only advertise a wattage rating, some give both, and some only give their temperature. I'm not exactly certain how wattage translates directly into temperature rating.

I realize that electricity moves through the heating element and the resistance causes heat and that the power dissipated can be measured in watts. Am I missing some simple connection? I would think that the two were unconnected, sort of like the marketing scheme of lighbulbs in watts which have nothing to do with their light output (in lumens). It could be assumed, of course, that higher wattage produces more heat (or light), but this is simply not always true. Thermal properties of the substances involved, basic construction, as well as other factors have to be figured in as well.

As an aside, I have noticed soldering stations advertised with tip temperatures adjustable between 350F and 800F, yet their advertised wattage were completely different (42W for one as compared to 80W for the other). I have been told (and read in a number of places online) that twenty-five to thirty-five watts was good enough for electronics work. Yet, I cannot comprehend "good enough." Does that mean that I should not get anything over thirty-five watts for fear of ruining components (which I, once again, would tend to believe has more to do with temperature than actual wattage) or that something with lower wattage simply won't get hot enough? (I should note that I saw some 15W soldering irons with tip temperatures of 600F.)

The only connection that I can somehow attribute from research is in the transfer of heat into the joint itself. Higher wattages would transfer the same amount of heat faster than a lower wattage would for the same temperature. I would think that this would be conducive to better and faster soldering so long as you didn't decide to daydream at the exact moment you decided to solder a joint. This is another reason that I question the 25W to 35W "rule." Shouldn't any soldering tool capable of delivering an appropriate amount of it's 360F+ tip temperature be "good enough?"

In closing, the two soldering stations that I am considering purchasing (the Hakko FP-102 and the CooperTools/Weller WSL, both comparably priced at 200$ USD and what I have budgeted to spend on a new soldering station) are both well over the 35W recommended for electronics work. I was trying to put together a clearer picture of what I should look at when purchasing my soldering companion for the next number of years.

Sorry for the long post and thank you all in advance...

Edit: I had inadvertently copied the melting point for lead alone. I have now corrected my data to correctly represent "ideal" electronics solder's melting point.

hugo

Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 286
Helped: 27
Location: canada

31 Jan 2006 2:21 which is thebest soldering station?

ME wrote:

davorin wrote:

I just saw the new Metcal PS-800 for 259 € at a European distibutor, it seems like a better deal for hobbyists. They also use a new tip design for PS-800, which makes the tips cheaper.

Quote:

Is it possible to aply your idea to a (MX) Metcal Soldering Station ?
I'm thinking to buy an MX-RM3E Replacement Rework Handpiece with Cord (~ 100$) and a tip (~40$) !!!
Are their tips working @ 24V too?
Any advice ?

Thanks

vdaniel

Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 216
Helped: 9

10 Feb 2006 13:02 weller desolder circuit

Very good and relatively cheap hot air tool Hot-Jet S from www.leister.com

zolam

Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 102
Helped: 9

10 Feb 2006 13:35 hobbyist hot air soldering desoldering

undoubtly WELLER
in our lab we have some 120 and we tried during 20 y different firms, including japanese and US ones

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10 Feb 2006 13:35 Ads

vdaniel

Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 216
Helped: 9

10 Feb 2006 15:00 best deal soldering station

Please, compare Leister and Weller prices.

george.leman

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Belgium

20 Feb 2007 20:16 the best soldering station rannk

I'm really suprised that in this forum nobody has ever talked about the
X-KAR Brand of equipment manufactured by Bokar International
which I think is really efficient and accurate.

I had used several Rework Systems for my company and my
employes have used Bokar units since 8 years and they can tell
you, they had over the years only few small remarks about these tools, which
were usually quickly modified by the manufacturer.

www.bokar.com or commercial site in USA www.bomir.com

I'd like you to compare and to tell me what X-KAR Products do not have in
comparison with its competitors such as Hakko, Pace or Weller and Metcal that everybody is talking about?

We need to get few more systems and your experience could help us.