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eda_wiz
Joined: 07 Nov 2001
Posts: 715
Helped: 30
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 23 Sep 2003 12:12 How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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hi friends,
can any one tell me about the VLSI Job situation in US now. Is it picking up. What are the chances for a fresh under graduate to get a Job in VLSI/ASIC Design, and which all companies are hiring fresh/entry level graduates now. Does an MSEE from a US university increases chances of landing in Job .... 
Last edited by eda_wiz on 27 Mar 2006 17:24; edited 1 time in total |
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fatbrain
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 8
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| 24 Sep 2003 19:11 |
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| Not good
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flatulent
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4860
Helped: 288
Location: Middle Earth
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| 24 Sep 2003 19:16 other countries |
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| US companies are doing their IC designs in other countries with lower cost of living and salaries. I have heard that US design jobs that paid $50k-$100k per year are now done in India at $5k per year. The reason is that these designs are now done with CAD programs and the people in these other countries are just as skilled at using the programs as anyone in the US.
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eltonjohn
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 1566
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| 24 Sep 2003 19:19 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Pretty soon . we gonna have to go to India to get a job. And the pay will
probably will be in rupies.
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mgpc
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 12
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| 25 Sep 2003 0:13 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Not to mention that a lot of these jobs are relocated to mainland China.
According to my sources, equivalent job functions in hardware design cost from 1/8 to 1/5 of what it would cost in US. So for the same amount of money, you could have 5-8 monkeys (highly intelligent ones  ) hacking away.
The situation is worst for new-grads. Regardless of the amount of your education, you are a "new-grad". And in some places in US, companies will only hire experienced designer that has a very specific set of skills.
In terms of geography, east coast is better than west coast. Texas is doing fairly well, so is San Diego, CA.
It is not impossible to get jobs in US but it won't be easy.
MGPC
Last edited by mgpc on 25 Sep 2003 0:15; edited 1 time in total |
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mkassem
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 74
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| 25 Sep 2003 0:15 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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what about europ 
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ic_design
Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 33
Helped: 1
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| 26 Sep 2003 12:54 |
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| Many engineer have left from the USA.
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roli
Joined: 29 Apr 2001
Posts: 943
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Location: 'SiliconWafer' Island
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| 26 Sep 2003 13:30 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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The prospects of getting an ASIC job are getting worse, for 2 more other reasons:
1. ASIC design starts are fewer. Lesser companies have the hugh funds required for the ASIC NRE (above $300K). More companies opt to go SOC == lesser chips in their designs.
2. Unlike the situation 10 years ago - where everybody with basic skills of Verilog/VHDL/Synopsys/etc - would have been offered a job instantly, today these skills are basic, and are commodity.
I would not advise an undergrad to specialize towards the ASIC line - too risky.
More likely to get a job easy are:
RF engineers, HW engineers, System engineers, Broadband (SONET/SDH/Giga-Ethernet/Wireless/Optics - and above all - NanoTech & BioTech !!!).
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eda_wiz
Joined: 07 Nov 2001
Posts: 715
Helped: 30
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| 26 Sep 2003 15:41 |
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Hi Roli,
Thanks for the valuable comments.
Can you tell me about the probablity of future requirements in Analog Chip Design market ..
Instead of focussing on Digital Design with HDLs ,If I focus on AMS design..are my prospects higher
Last edited by eda_wiz on 27 Mar 2006 17:38; edited 1 time in total |
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roli
Joined: 29 Apr 2001
Posts: 943
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| 26 Sep 2003 15:50 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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A little better - but not by much.
Better be an Analog Design expert who renders contracting services not only for the ASIC market - but also for Board Level, System.
Also - FPGA is now better than ASIC - because many companies now tend to prefer FPGAs for immediate NRE cost reasons.
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superluminal
Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 95
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| 26 Sep 2003 17:28 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Well , I didn't know that the skills in Nanotech are wanted more than RF - for example !.
What you all expect for the nanotech industry in the incoming years ? Do you know that the main reason for being delayed , besides the high cost , is that the elder designers who used to look at transistors as a black box with some I/O behavior will need to learn much about the device physics and such things that they used to through away for the simulators ?
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flatulent
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4860
Helped: 288
Location: Middle Earth
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| 26 Sep 2003 17:34 butt in |
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Let me butt in here and say that the above post illustrates the reason I tell students to take courses in basic theory because the laws of physics do not change and the basic theory will serve you for the rest of your career. It is also advantageous to take basic theory courses from other departments like physics, chemistry, and mechanical engineering.
Have a reading program to reread your class textbooks over again every few years so that you are reminded of things that you forgot from not using them. Internet used book stores like bookfinder.com have old engineering classics for low prices. If you see several books reference a book you do not have it is well worth buying and reading it.
Another principle is to do different designs when you have the opportunity. It is part of human nature to take the easy way and do the same design over and over because it is easy. For example, once you are good at designing IF amplifiers, have a try at the synthesizer.
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Frosty
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 730
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| 03 Oct 2003 1:16 Re: butt in |
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| flatulent wrote: |
| It is also advantageous to take basic theory courses from other departments like physics, chemistry, and mechanical engineering. |
This is actually sound advice for all, in most places where I have contracted to, I have found multi disciplined or at least experienced engineers being valued most, and hence I keep seeing there faces every time I visit for a design review.
Do not know if I would attribute their value entirely to being multi disciplined but they communicate in a team/workgroup enviroment very well and can see opertunity to make use of others skills easily (not leach) with appreciation of a whole product design cycle and its limitations.
:R
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Frosty
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
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| 03 Oct 2003 1:19 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Just one more thing, do not be too depressed about other countries bidding cheaper, the ratio of cost of living to salary is about the same.
I still get plenty work from the US and EU and I definately won't work for $5k a year
Depends on you expectations of salary though, I am happy to make a living, everything --- provides after that is a bonus 
:R
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flatulent
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4860
Helped: 288
Location: Middle Earth
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| 03 Oct 2003 1:38 multidiscipline |
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You don't have to go as far as being qualified to practice other disciplines as an expert. One of my personal examples is that when I was in school the engineers only had to take the first two terms of the basic three term chemistry sequency. The people in the hard sciences had to take all three. I took the third term and also the class in properities of materials from the material science department. These two extra class have served me well. I did similar choices in other areas.
I can confidently understand data sheets on materials and I can understand the discussions with the mechanical engineers on their selection of materials for strength and corrosion avoidance. Twice now I have used my knowledge of metals changing crystal structure with temperature to notice potential problems and avoid them.
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Mr.Cool
Joined: 20 Jun 2001
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| 03 Oct 2003 2:19 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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recent grads have job prospects which are dismal. more so last year. i know many many graduates from last year that still do not have jobs and will probably see their degrees wasted. very sad.
what is "hot" right now is power electornics and aerospace. i see only graduates of these studies which get jobs.
Mr.Cool
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robotman
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 74
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| 03 Oct 2003 2:58 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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I do see things improving overall. I used to work for a major semi company and several other products companies.
As for the semi market, the above comments about the costs of doing ASICs are really getting out of hand. We used to spend up to 1M(US) for mask and initial prototype charges. We designed in several large gate farms so the could be metal mask changed to reduce the cost of a respin. Metal spins were typically 1/10 the cost of a full up project. These projects were state of the art, VLSI chips. The 1M was just a small cost of doing the product. X$linx has done very well in its strategy of replacing medium size ASIC production with FPGAs. I have heard of prices as low as $30 for a new Spartan3 1500. It might even go lower. Given this, if the mask set is 300K with 2 spins, you probably break about even on chip cost at about 30K to 50K chips. Unless the product is already in large scale production or the potential of production is at least 1M parts, most people will go the FPGA route.
Another problem with the ASIC market is that engineers are actually causing long term problems in the market. I am the kind of engineer that will reuse anything I can to speed the time to market, but there is so much IP (cores) out there for free, that ASIC engineers are becoming integrators and testers, not designers. This is fine for now, but how many people out there know what the next killer app is? When are they going to run out of ideas? For me (and I think about it often), I don't see many left that have any barrier to entry, especially when the IP is given freely.
As for the product market, this market is starting to impove. The future is merky, but for talented engineers with solid skills, it is pretty good. Many of the wannabe engineers are changing professions.
I also agree with flatulent on being multidiplinaried. This is one thing that I have always strived for. As my login name appies, I do robotics as a hobby. It is about a multidicinplinary as you can get. EE, ME, SW, and system level knowledge is a must. But I find myself always going back to the basics every time. Many companies like the idea of focused, engineers improving the time to market of products, but when time get rough and projects go, if the skill set is not needed, you are the first to go. Also, these engineers do not see the big picture. I have always viewed engineering as a study of tradeoffs, not totally about problem solving. If you take this approach, there are soooooo many solutions. Most focused people do not take the time to really look at the big picture.
One other aspect about outsourcing to other countries. On average, the studies (and my personal experience) shows the need of 5 average engineers to one really talented one. This come largely in part of the tradeoff strategy. Given that, there is very little difference in salary of hiring one good one to 5 average. I have also found that the quality level is much different. I think that will change over time and that is what frightens me. My value will become diminished. But as most people have seen, as economies get better, the life expectations get better. This always starts raising salaries. Soon then you end up with the next batch of overpaid people. And so on, and so on..... the cycle begins all over again.
Enough mumbling, and please don't shoot me for the comments. It is just one opinion and you everyone knows what opinions are.... right?
robotman
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flatulent
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 4860
Helped: 288
Location: Middle Earth
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| 03 Oct 2003 3:45 future predictions |
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Future predictions are very error prone. When the motor car came, people said that it would ruin the economy by putting horse breeders, stable operators, and road sweepers out of work. It was praised by some as a boon to public health by the elimination of horse droppings in the street.
Another example from more recent, a Persuaders television program from about 35 years ago had as its theme the formula for cheap synthetic pertroleum. The chemist died and his daughter inherited his documents. She put them in the fire because the world economy would be harmed by cheap fuel. This was hailed by the bystanders as an heroic act to save the world instead of becoming personally wealthy.
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I_test
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 19
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| 13 Oct 2003 12:09 |
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| In fact, it is not very good all over the world.
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my_design
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 12
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| 22 Oct 2003 5:09 |
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| Recently it is becoming better.
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casual3_2002
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 174
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| 14 Nov 2003 2:03 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Job market is stabilizing recently and seems will pick up very soon if no further surprises. As for Silicon Valley, consumer electronics IC companies are doing exceptionally well, many been hiring for months. However, most require a minimum of 3~5 industry experience. Analog/Mixed signal seinor engineers are red hot right now, our company has been looking for an Analog Manager for quite some time without luck and I've asked many of my former coworkers in analog and they are telling me everyone is happy with current position and NO one will even consider a soso offer. ASIC market is also improving at a lower pace.
For new grads, I heard Qualcomm is mostly hiring junior engineers since they have too many PhDs.
casual3
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sutapanaki
Joined: 02 Nov 2001
Posts: 476
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| 14 Nov 2003 3:12 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Which is your company? 
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beabroad
Joined: 25 Nov 2003
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| 26 Nov 2003 8:18 |
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| for students just coming out of graduate school, like fresh PhD, chances to find industrial job is so few:(
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vivek_itk
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| 26 Nov 2003 8:27 |
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| hello friend can any one telll me about vlsi designig training
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StoppTidigare
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
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| 26 Nov 2003 9:56 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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Hi all, I read at doom.com that 500.000 jobs were lost in USA in the high-tech industry during 2002.
/StoppTidigare
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samuel_john
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| 26 Nov 2003 10:01 |
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| vivek_itk wrote: |
| hello friend can any one telll me about vlsi designig training |
hi vivek where r u from...if from india...cdac is very good training centre...its a short term course...of six month...
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StoppTidigare
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
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| 26 Nov 2003 10:39 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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One more thing, I cannot let this comment by mgpc go uncommented:
"So for the same amount of money, you could have 5-8 monkeys (highly intelligent ones ) "
In my world, calling people monkeys, regardless if they are intelligent ones is disrespect. I hope thats not the case in your mind mgpc.
Remember that elektrodians are people from all over the world and we should respect each other, and therefore be a little more careful in this forum, regardless if the peolple from India and China take your job.
/StoppTidigare
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sherif12
Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 33
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| 26 Nov 2003 13:40 |
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what will be the situation if the applicant has a master degree in VLSI/ASIC?
Does this make difference?
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subisha
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| 28 Feb 2004 7:50 |
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VLSI is Very hot .Dont miss the oppu
right now ,so many companies wanted the VLSI people for Design, from All background
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roli
Joined: 29 Apr 2001
Posts: 943
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Location: 'SiliconWafer' Island
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| 28 Feb 2004 10:03 Re: How is VLSI Jobs in US now |
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I am not sure that the above [subisha] poster is from the US, and I'm not sure where he has gotten his info from. The topic is "How is the VLSI Job Market in the US"...
Don't let the above mislead you. The VLSI Jobs situation in the US is 'mild to cold', and definetely not hot as he describes.... Many job are being transferred offshore...
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