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mitaka
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 57
Helped: 1
Location: Bulgaria, Canada
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 30 Mar 2003 21:52 |
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Canada is basically the same as US. Almost no hiring, just here and there. I see more analog positions than digital. I don't know how's in Europe. How's in BG?[/quote]
In BG...
no words to say:{
there is 3 firms for IC desing
and I'm ashamed to say how much they pay,
but as i see the problem is global for HW people
LET THE FORCE BE WITH US 
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srik
Joined: 09 Feb 2002
Posts: 167
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| 30 Mar 2003 22:14 Re: srik |
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| ahgu wrote: |
To srik:
just a personal observation in one case. I did not make the "cheap labor=lousy work" statement as you did.
But like buying goods, if you pay more mony, the chance is much higher that you will get a better product.
Also I see from common sense that it is harder to manage/coordinate when you have a project partitioned like that, from a engineer management point of view.
BTW, off shore are getting very expensive after M$ and oracle move to India big time and started to hire like crazy. But a lot of time it is middle man getting the money. Like one company I know, they are paying $60/hour to india support, the indian worker get merely $5/hour, the $55 goes to some infrastructure(like computer cost, phone) and traveling and medical benefits, and middleman(pimp)'s pocket. Now people are actually saying it is actually cheaper to do things/hire people local.
Well, I guess eventually, everyone arround the world will enjoy the same living standard, at least same pay for same work. unless one country control all the world resources by force. That is why I say we should look into weaponry and put us on hire on the global scale. like "outsourcing your n*ke project to us for $#B", or "outsourcing anti-F## missiles projects to us for $$$" , sorry, some bushit guy just made my imagination go wild. |
Any way I interpreted/misinterpreted your 1st point.
Well cheap labour may not be the only reason for moving some of the buisnesses to India/China. Dont forget 1/3 population is in India/China and it represents huge market potential. Also Infrastructure is cheaper and with the governments welcoming the foreign investment with open arms, I guess some of the businesses moved to India/China.
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sutapanaki
Joined: 02 Nov 2001
Posts: 488
Helped: 19
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| 30 Mar 2003 23:16 |
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| mitaka wrote: |
| Canada is basically the same as US. Almost no hiring, just here and there. I see more analog positions than digital. I don't know how's in Europe. How's in BG? |
In BG...
no words to say:{
there is 3 firms for IC desing
and I'm ashamed to say how much they pay,
but as i see the problem is global for HW people
LET THE FORCE BE WITH US [/quote]
As far as I know there is one major company - Melexis. Which are the other 2. HIC perhaps? Melexis should be paying relatively well for BG conditions, isn't it?
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mitaka
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 57
Helped: 1
Location: Bulgaria, Canada
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| 31 Mar 2003 14:24 |
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to sutapanaki:
As far as I know there is one major company - Melexis. Which are the other 2. HIC perhaps? Melexis should be paying relatively well for BG conditions, isn't it?[/quote]
where are you from?
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Tomby
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 22
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| 29 Aug 2003 19:45 |
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| After reading the posts you guys have, I have to admit it is very depressing. Being a junior engineer in north america with all the news of outsourcing ic designs to china and india, is there any hope for HW or maybe I should just switch majors to power or telecommunications?
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bluep
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 7
Location: china
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| 03 Sep 2003 8:19 |
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| In order to reduce the cost , you may be transfer the design to China
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rx300
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 61
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| 10 Sep 2003 17:08 ASIC design vs. plumbing |
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A friend of mine has spent > 15 yrs. in IC industry. He was offered a contractor IC design job lately, $60/hr. He had to take it, since that was the only job he could find.
A plumber in his area charges $65/hr by average.
This is truely a sad story ... There will probably be very few IC jobs in US, since most of them will be transferred to low cost countries such as east europe, india, china. Especially the engineers from east europe are very well trained and highly skillful.
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Guest
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| 10 Sep 2003 17:55 another factor |
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| Another factor in these areas is the relaxed enforcement of the laws. They can buy one copy of expensive IC design software and put in on many computers.
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teedesk
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 4
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| 19 May 2005 14:47 Re: so sad |
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| cin wrote: |
What is the chance for fresh graduate with a Master Degree to get a job in ASIC or VLSI in U.S. these day ?
Many of my friends can't find any jobs after graduation. The only ones got the jobs are those who have "CONNECTION"  |
less capable ppl who have the 'connection' get jobs easily, as compared to more capable ppl without the 'connection'......sad
Added after 15 minutes:
| ahgu wrote: |
so sad, what will they do after so many engineers graduate? find a job in burger king?
I thought analog takes a lot of experience. I see numerous opening for analog ic design in my area. digital are few. RF is very stable, it takes long time to train analog and RF engineer. You cannot jump that quickly like java, c++, verilog/vhdl programming. I think the demand for these engineers are at least stable, the number of these engineers cannot increase as fast as programmers(verilog/vhdl/c/c++/java).
A little funny story from chips designed from India where companies use cheap labor to do most of the logics. I guess the logic inside might work well if we get to test them, however, peripheral consideration was not considered, things like power supply, clock, reset, it takes extra logic just to reset the chips, and the chip can be easily broken with no protection schemes insides. basically we had to gave up the chip after prototype, it was waste of time. And that company has very good reputation(world class company) up to now. It is bad practice when management try to save money this way. Also, I heard a lot of good engineers from these companies left for smaller startup, what remains are just mediocre. Thru my exprience with one BIG semi companies, I notice more ladies running arround doing core engineers work(definitely more than before). And from the decline of quality of their products, I really hate to make the correlation. Well I guess mainly 2 reasons:
1. you try to save money by outsource hardware design, but you lose something in the middle. Sometime it is not as easy as writing database program. these pure software products. I know India produces a lot of good programmers, things like for database, now networking routing, but hardware/ic wise, I don't know. Taiwan definitely have more background in that area.
2. The BEST engineers left during the tech hype last couple years and they are not likeyly to come back. And it really takes time and opportunity to train these BEST engineers.
well, the fact is life sucks for us engineers at this time. maybe try to do some military stuff, make small handheld bomb that you can easily shoot down fighter airplanes. There are a lot of demand there. who knows, maybe WWIII is coming. okay, enough ranting, Please don't accuse me, consider this as bushit. |
from your story and the way you categorised java, c++, verilog/vhdl as programming, it reminds me of one thing which my lecturer had mentioned:
"verilog/vhdl is NEVER the same as software programming."
i agree that india can produce good quality software but for ic design, i'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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