How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

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hyy95120

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 36

12 Jan 2007 7:24 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

Do you search patents for each subblock and make sure these blocks do not violate other guy's patents?

Or just do whatever you want to use and hope nobody else will know?

Please experienced designers share your experience.

Thanks!

cellphone

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 30
Helped: 6

13 Jan 2007 19:47 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

1. When you are doing your literature search before designing, search the uspto and europen patent office (who have websites and search facilities) to make sure what patents are there that are applicable in your area. And, if there are patents, check their expiry dates.
2. Maintain a record book and write down the ideas and date you came up with them. And, get it signed by your coworker.
3. On many of the sub blocks you design, check to see if your company already has a design for those blocks. Therefore, you are not only maximizing the reuse but also using your company IP. Thus, you dont have to worry about patent infringement (assuming the designers of the block have done their share of IP investigation)
4. If you want to use an existing idea that is patented it can be diffuclt. You probably need to come up with a different way to address the problem and make it better or very different.
5. Consult your company lawyer whenver you have doubts/questions.
6. Always first do a verbal communication to ask your lawyer's advise before starting email correspodence.

hyy95120

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 36

14 Jan 2007 8:58 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

For example, if someone patented Pipeline Analog to Digital Converter. Does that mean you can't design pipelined ADC anymore?

cellphone

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 30
Helped: 6

14 Jan 2007 9:27 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

I think for a patent infringement (and you should double check this) you'd have to violate all the claims in their patent. And so you have to read thru the boring patent disclosure if you are not sure.
If your design uses all the claims listed in the pipeline AD converter patent, you are probably infringing that patent.
Try this site:
http://inventors.about.com/library/bl/toc/bl_patent-infringement.htm

steer

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Helped: 11

14 Jan 2007 17:58 Re: How do you deal with patents when you are designing a ch

It's hard to add anything to a great answer from cellphone! Anyway, a few more points:

1. If you are working for a large company, it probably has a lot of cross-licensing agreements with others. Even if some particular patent is not covered and your company gets sued, it can counetrsue for violation of its won IP and it all ends up with cross-licensing agreement.
So, if you are working for a large company, dont bother to search, the company lawyers cover you.

2. If you know about the patent and infringe it anyway, the punishment is much heavier in some countries. And wise versa if you infringe because you did not know, you get somewhat lighter judgement. So it sometimes worth to not search too deep.

Last edited by steer on 15 Jan 2007 8:27; edited 1 time in total

E-design

Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 947
Helped: 68

14 Jan 2007 20:46 Re: How do you deal with patents when you are designing a ch

One person that I know who works for a big chip company told me that they will look at patents and if it is owned by not so financial strong person or company they will just use it. They have a team of lawyers ready to keep the other party occupied in court for as long as it will take. That proves again that any patent is only as strong as the person who owns it.

hyy95120

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 36

16 Jan 2007 6:38 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

Thanks a lot cellphone!

ravet

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 114
Helped: 2
Location: DSO

16 Jan 2007 9:49 Re: How do you deal with patents when you are designing a ch

E-design wrote:

what a strange behaviour !!!!!! this makes the saying of " The strongest will last" true!!!

Vabzter

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 31
Helped: 1

18 Jan 2007 13:47 Re: How do you deal with patents when you are designing a ch

I guess most of the papers on IEEE are not patented and can be used freely for design for e.g pipeline ADC..
But an application like ladder type DAC is patented by Analog Devices so you have to be really careful if you are designing that for an application..
I guess its easier to look into IEEE papers for design ideas..what are your thoughts on this
BR
Vabzter[/quote]

hyy95120

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 36

18 Jan 2007 18:50 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

that's just a guess. They can always file patents within a year after their paper got published.
Besides, they don't care if their papers violate others' patents.

Just in the case of pipeline adc, there are over 120 patents about pipeline adc's structures. I haven't read thru them yet. But what if someone patented 1.5bit stage, can you still use 1.5bit stage?

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ethan

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 68

20 Jan 2007 23:33 one more question

Even though lots of reply, I still got a question for everybody.

Say, in one scenario, I am in a small IC company and work on a commercial product. I search and find one patent, which is a very nice design. My question is:

1. If I don't tell anybody, even in our design group, can I only add the part of that patent into my design, not the entire patent? Since I still need to put other my own design in it in order to get whole system fabricated and sold. If nobody knows this and the product finally got a little profit. Can you say I am against law?

tekno1

Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 85
Helped: 5

21 Jan 2007 2:01 How do you deal with patents when you are designing a chip?

ethan,

You are sure the patent applies to your design since you are taking heart of your design from out of the patent.
Although it is a type of stealing, if cought you are also responsible and liable. The reason companies go after company because it makes financialy more sense. If cought and sued you will be bussy !

It is better to read claims of the patents and not directly use the patent to violate the claims. They try to claim everything but there are mostly many ways to go around for capable designers.

Simplest way which come to my mind is like a patented circuit done with bipolar transistor, if explicitly not claimed of using CMOS and exibited, one can use same topology to make it work in CMOS and it is a new circuit.