Interfacing Bluetooth USB Dongle with Microcontroller

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niket_304

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 74

25 Dec 2006 10:41 bluetooth microcontroller

Do anyone know How to interface Bluetooth USB Dongle(which is easily available for PC) with Microcontrollers?
coz these Dongles r easily available n cheaper than Bluetooth module so if its possible to interface with ucs than it becomes cheaper Bluetooth embedded solution.

togarha

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Helped: 1

26 Dec 2006 8:05 microcontroller bluetooth

Anyone has use a Bluecore module (as the modules from blueexpert? )...

regards,

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

27 Dec 2006 18:53 bluetooth module microcontroller

Hello,

This is really very interesting, provocative topic and worths to further readings instead of so boring and tiresome "Which is better PIC or AVR ?".
Let's guy.. Post some ideas, experiences and links if you already have...

Thanks...

penrico

Joined: 28 Aug 2001
Posts: 249
Helped: 13
Location: Argentina

27 Dec 2006 19:31 bluetooth microcontroller interface

why don't you find for a bluetooth module that makes communication throught a uart? like WRAP THOR WT12 bluetooth module. www.bluegiga.com

Buriedcode

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 327
Helped: 34
Location: London

27 Dec 2006 19:37 microcontroller with bluetooth

Hi,

I guess it is an interesting subject, but I'm unsure what exactly youa re asking for. A 'UBluetooth' USB dongle requires a 'host' USB interface, and as far as I'm aware, the USB peripheral in the 18F USB compliant series is incapable of 'hosting'. I believe cypress have USB host chips relatively cheap, and would be easy to interface with a micro.

Saying that, there are plenty of cheap bluetooth modules, that do NOT have a USB interface, but use a UART or SPI instead, this would negate the need for a USB interface, bypass it completely and would be a whole lot easier to interface to any micro, PIC, AVR or otherwise. They are even cheaper than existing USB bluetooth modules.

More specific question = more specific answer.

BuriedCode.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

28 Dec 2006 5:36 bluetooth interfacing with microcontroller

You can use one of the following PIC's to communicate with the BLuetooth module via USB:
PIC18F2550,PIC18F2455,PIC18F4550,PIC18F4455

Or, You can build a converter from RS232 to USB.

Hope this helps.

dainis

Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 1451
Helped: 56

28 Dec 2006 7:58 bluetooth interface with microcontroller

seadolphine2000 wrote:

These PICs have USB Host controller ???

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

28 Dec 2006 11:40 pic usb bluetooth

I think so,.. Check the datasheet.

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28 Dec 2006 11:40 Ads

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Picstudent

Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 536
Helped: 13
Location: India

28 Dec 2006 13:59 bluetooth usb pic

dainis wrote:

These PICs have USB Host controller ???

Noooooooooooooooooo! Crying or Very sad

picstudent

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

28 Dec 2006 18:38 pic bluetooth usb

Hi,

USB is a "master-slave" bus with exactly one master and multiple slaves.
The slaves are called peripherals. The master is called a host. Only the
host can initiate USB transfers; the peripherals always respond, never
initiate. A PC is the most common host.

Unfortunately, Microchip's microcontollers which are equipped either low speed or
high speed USB are all peripherals. (Not host)

At the other hand, It is a truth that Bluetooth USB dongles which is easily
available in market need a host USB for proper operation. They are developed
to bringing Bluetooth ability to the PCs which is not having it.

If we want to have an USB Host with equipped bluetooth within our embedded system,
Cypress is offering some embedded USB hosts.
Another alternative is to use Maxim's MAX3421E stand-alone USB Host/Peripheral ICs.

Regards.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

28 Dec 2006 22:43 bluetooth dongle microcontroller

DDS,..

Quote:

Unfortunately, Microchip's microcontollers which are equipped either low speed or
high speed USB are all peripherals. (Not host)

I want to connect one of the microcontrollers mentioned above to a USB Bluetooth module so I can communicate with the cell phone.
Do you mean that I can't use this connection?
i.e: I can't connect the Bluetooth module to the MCU to communicate with the cell phone.

Please, Help as it's very important to me.

Thanks in advance.

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

29 Dec 2006 0:28 bluetooth dongle spi

No, you can. But using of a Microchip microcontroller which is having
embedded USB peripheral subsystem is useless.

You can use any Microchip's 18F.. series microcontroller with or without
embedded USB subsystem. Just you have to change your USB subsystem with
Maxim's MAX3421E USB Host Controller or similar IC from different vendor.

Visit the following link..
http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/interface/usb/controllers.cfm

Regards.

MathGeek

Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 67

29 Dec 2006 7:44 microchip pic bluetooth

Ok....so am I understanding this discussion correctly?

The reason that the existing Bluetooth modules are not desired for this case is that it is too expensive. (>50 dollars)

So, we want to use USB dongle (which is less than 10 USD) to enable uC to communicate through.

So, in order to do that, we need to "host" USB, so we need MAX3421E.

But all in all, is the second method with an extra IC still cheaper (in terms of design, labor, material, etec) than existing Bluetooth modules?

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

29 Dec 2006 9:22 microcontroller and bluetooth

Hi,..

Attached here is a photo that is taken from the MAX3421E datasheet shows the connection between the MAX3421E and the uC.

Should the uC uesd in the photo have a USB interface? or I can use a regular PIC like PIC16F877 and the MAX3421E will interface between the uC and Bluetooth module.?

Thanks very much guys for all your help.

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devura

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 134
Helped: 6
Location: India

29 Dec 2006 9:57 bluetooth with microcontroller

Hi

For MAX 3421E to work with uC, you need to have a uc-USB interface within the UC

Beowolf

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 135
Helped: 7

29 Dec 2006 14:25 bluetooth microcontrollers

No, you just need SPI, hardware or software..

artem

Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 1652
Helped: 91
Location: Turan

29 Dec 2006 14:40 microcontroller for bluetooth

Host is not a problem as it can be attached to micro . But driver has to be written for particular dongle and dongle programming mapping between usb and bluetooth chip registers must be available . I suppose it is not standardized.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

29 Dec 2006 21:12 bluetooth and microcontroller

artem,...

Quote:

Do you mean that the Bluetooth dongle driver need to be included to the PIC code?
If yes, Can I convert the driver existed on the cd to a hex file and then download it to the MCU? Or, Should I write it by myself.?

Thanks guys very much for all your help. I really appreciate that.

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

30 Dec 2006 1:18 vinculum bluetooth

Hi MathGeek,

As for me, the main reason is not cost price of embedded bluetooth
modules. The main reason is availability.. You can easlily find and buy an
USB bluetooth dongle in nearest computer shop withal great choices.

Secondly, regularity.. I think they will be permanent in the market
because of generality of portable equipments like mobile phones, PDAs,
Notebooks, cameras etc.

Thirdly, they have universal interface port. It is USB. If you have
an already designed a reliable USB host in your embedded system, either
use it as bare USB port or equip with that dongle and provide cable-free
possibility to communicate other bluetooth devices.. Instead of a lot
of pin allocation of embedded bluetooth modules, dongles need an USB
port that aready you have.

You are right for extra cost of time and money at first desing and
evaluation period.. But it is only one time bother. For a bulk
production MAX3421E or similar IC costs less than $4-5 and does not
cause over cost price.

Regards.

artem

Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 1652
Helped: 91
Location: Turan

30 Dec 2006 1:30 bluetooth+microcontroller

seadolphine2000 wrote:

you cant make hex of intel binary and load it into pic - machine opcodes are completely different. Yet not only hardware driver but protocol related part must be added as well. There is list of bluetooth modules :
http://zuff.info/Bluetooth.html .

There are few books on EDA book section . Also iar has IAR_makeap containing ready to use sources for bluetooth.
my advice wont be much helpful as i have never worked with bluetooth , so it would be nice to have some pointers from people with bluetooth implementation experience.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

30 Dec 2006 21:24 usb bluetooth driver source code

Hi,..

Quote:

you cant make hex of intel binary and load it into pic - machine opcodes are completely different. Yet not only hardware driver but protocol related part must be added as well.

Is there any chip or circuit I can use to avoid writing the Bluetooth dongle driver and the related protocols to my MCU code.?

Thanks guys very much for your help. I really annoyed you with my questions.

kender

Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 1231
Helped: 88
Location: Stanford, SF Bay Peninsula, California, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way

30 Dec 2006 21:50 usb bluetooth microcontroller

Picstudent wrote:

dainis wrote:

These PICs have USB Host controller ???

Noooooooooooooooooo! Crying or Very sad

Yeeeeesssssss!!! "Vinculum" made by FTDI

MathGeek

Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 67

30 Dec 2006 23:18 microcontroler bluetooth

DDS wrote:

I absolutely agree for all the points you mentioned. Those are precisely why I also would like to know if it is indeed feasible to implement USB bluetooth dongle with uC.

Has anyone had any success?

Buriedcode

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 327
Helped: 34
Location: London

31 Dec 2006 3:25 bluetooth module with microcontroller

Availability?

Sparkfun carry these small bluetooth modules, cheaply, they ship to anywhere in the world, and they accept paypal. As far as convenience is concerned, it seems it doesn't come much more 'avaliable' than that, unless you want to walk into a shop and buy some over the counter? Great company, highly recommended.

And yes, as I mentioned cypress do some USB chips capable of being a 'host'. It'll stil require a far bit of coding and setting up on the PIC end, because drivers are specific to each USB device. Of course, there are 'generic' drivers, but a PIC is not a PC, you can't expect a small 8 bit microcontroller (or that cypress chip) to somehow 'have' generic drivers for most USB peripherals.

And as far as I'm aware Kender, Vinculum isn't a PIC Very Happy

(but it IS a microcontroller with a master USB interface! I'm buying one as we speak)

Blueteeth

MathGeek

Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 67

31 Dec 2006 5:18 usb bluetooth pic

^^^Thanks for the info. I checked out Sparkfun.

60 USD is not too bad, but still a little too steep for me to implement multiple of those on different robots. I would like to know some cheaper alternatives.

Thanks.

Edit: Should I wait for Certified Wireless USB to gain popularity instead of learning Bluetooth?

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

31 Dec 2006 11:44 bluetooth stack microcontroller

Hi,

The FTDI Vinculum VNC1L IC can be used only a couple of USB classes which are
USB Mass Storage Class, Printer Class and HID Class. So, it can provide only
connection of USB Flash Disks, Printers and Human Interface Devices (like mice) to
an embedded system.
Furthermore its firmware is dedicated and not disclosed by FTDI.
It seems that to develop royality-free open system which is compatible to the
bluetooth dongles is quite hard with using FTDI's Vinculum unless FTDI released
new firmware.

Regards.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

03 Jan 2007 0:31 interfacing bluetooth with microcontroller

Hi,..

I found these datasheets for two USB host controllers. As I can't find the max3421e, I wonder which of these chips I can use as a host with the PIC18F4455.

Thanks very much to all of you. I really appreciate all your help.

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nooknikz

Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 404
Helped: 22
Location: thailand

03 Jan 2007 3:01 pic18f4550 bluetooth

you can use MAX3421E for USB peripheral/host controller.

have app notes and sample code for interface with ARM LPC2138 :

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/3936

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/3937

For MAX3421E you can req sample from Maxim-ic.

seadolphine2000

Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Helped: 39

03 Jan 2007 11:10 usb bluetooth microcontroller interface

nooknikz,...
Thanks, I really appreciate your help.
I'm from Egypt and I've tried to request samples from: National, Texas and Maxim but all of them said "we can't".
That's why I need to know if one of the above chips could work instead of the MAX3421E.

Thanks guys very much.

DDS

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 40
Helped: 2
Location: Ukraine

03 Jan 2007 15:16 bluetooth pic microcontroller

Hello seadolphine2000,

I think both have some bottlenecks.. Vinculum is a dedicated IC for limited USB classes, please read again my post about Vinculum.
The other (NEC's USB host controller uPD720101) is aimed to be main component of PCI Bus to 5 ports USB hub.. It is imposible to match it to a PIC18F4455 without
gluelogic.

So, MAX3421E is the best available alternative in the market for now.

Regards.