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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 916
Helped: 21
Location: USA & Canada
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 27 Jan 2008 3:05 icd2 with 3.3v |
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| Gobol wrote: |
Hi,
I've got simple question - how to programm 3.3V PIC24/dsPIC33F with "our" ICD2 USB clone ?
I'd add that when I downloaded PIC24 firmware into ICD2 it didn't pass the self test. I t seems that there is a possibility of getting it work with new chips.
Maybe simple header with some kind of voltage-level-changer would do the trick? |
too many Downloadings of OS for different chips is a weak point of ICD2. Can you reverse it back for any other chip?
Just to verify if the chip is still function right first.
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1681
Helped: 99
Location: Toronto, Canada
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27 Jan 2008 5:19 clone icd2 with usb |
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| funnynypd wrote: |
| Gobol wrote: |
Hi,
I've got simple question - how to programm 3.3V PIC24/dsPIC33F with "our" ICD2 USB clone ?
I'd add that when I downloaded PIC24 firmware into ICD2 it didn't pass the self test. I t seems that there is a possibility of getting it work with new chips.
Maybe simple header with some kind of voltage-level-changer would do the trick? |
too many Downloadings of OS for different chips is a weak point of ICD2. Can you reverse it back for any other chip?
Just to verify if the chip is still function right first. |
It would take over 100,000 downloads to wear out the 16F877A in the ICD2. Very Unlikely that's the problem.
And yes you need some form of level translator.
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 916
Helped: 21
Location: USA & Canada
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27 Jan 2008 5:35 icd2+vdd=0 |
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The flash on chip can withhand 100K erase/write, no doubt on that.
it is the communication link which is the weak part, the PC has to connect the 16F877 either through a USB or RS232, sometime it just locks up the unit during the downloading process.
So you can try reprogram the chip and see if it can recover to normal condition. Then we can start from there.
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waseem
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 241
Helped: 35
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28 Jan 2008 10:15 will a pic work at 3 v |
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Hi!
I donot know wheather it is ok to use the clone ICD2 with the PIC24F/DSPIC 33F without any 3.3/5V converter circuitry.
In fact i have been using it with dsPIC33F for about a month without any problem. Currently i am using it with PIC24F.
The only thing that i ensure in my design is that i donot power the target board from ICD2. As far as the data and clock pins are concerned they are 5V tolerant on dsPIC33F/PIC24F.
Regards.
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 916
Helped: 21
Location: USA & Canada
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30 Jan 2008 4:38 3.3v usb diagram |
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| Have anyone actually tried it?
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waseem
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 241
Helped: 35
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30 Jan 2008 5:06 sergey kushnir |
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Hi!
I have already told that currently i am using ICD2 with PIC24FJ32GA002 without any problem. Before that i was using it with dsPIC33FJ12MC202. Both programming and debugging are working perfectly. Keep in mind that the I/O pins of these controllers are 5V tolerant. But becarefull not to power the board from ICD2.
Regards.
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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30 Jan 2008 10:39 icd2 3,3v icsp |
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| waseem wrote: |
Hi!
But becarefull not to power the board from ICD2.
Regards. |
how exactly you need to be care full if MPLAB just doesn't allow to power the board via ICD2 when you select any PIC24 or dsPIC33? it just switches the power of by default.
0x41 0x56 0x45!!
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waseem
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 241
Helped: 35
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30 Jan 2008 11:01 3.3v+icd 2 |
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Hi!
I simply connect the target board to the ICD using only CLK,DATA,MCLR and GND connections.
In addition to that if you see the POWER tab in the MPLAB ICD2 settings you will be surprised to know that the option to power target from ICD2 is shadowed which means that it is no longer available to be used.
Regards.
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30 Jan 2008 11:01 Ads |
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Sergey Kushnir
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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30 Jan 2008 11:38 icd2 supported pic24fj |
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Hi!
ICD2 works with PIC from 1,8V to 5,5V.
I repair very many ICD2 and know about ICD2 all.
I saw scheme and can to say that it must to work.
If ICD2 clone do not work than is one of two problems:
1. Damage ICD2 and it must repaired
2. Software.
I don't know any other problems.
For note: I repaired about 80 ICD2 Microchip and clone.
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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30 Jan 2008 11:41 microchip icd2 pgc cooked |
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haven't I written the same thing but with other words?
0x41 0x56 0x45!!
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Sergey Kushnir
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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30 Jan 2008 12:02 icd-2 poland |
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Sorry, I can't to see this ICD2 from Minsk and to say what to do precisely...
Added after 15 minutes:
I look up Slovak's posts and see that problem is damaged switch or switches in MCLR scheme.
If MPLAB ICD2 Vpp 12..13V and Target Vpp 5v or lower then switch Vcc_GT to MCLR_TGT is broken.
Please, check it!
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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07 Feb 2008 21:34 usb icd2 poland |
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Hi everybody!
I have read all topic with great pleasure.
Is one question about circuit which was asked by togarha. Why the 74HC4066 is powered from ICSP VPP? This chips can't work with this voltages! What is the purpose of this switch?
I found one little (maby big) problem. After program 8-bit chip (18F4550) and switch to 16-bit low voltage chip (24HJ12GP202) the transistor Q5 (potyo2) didn't block the Vdd voltage and was still 5V (measured and in MPLAB) and in Settings window checkbox was checked, but without posibility to change it... sic!
Which firmware do you use for both chips in Clone?
Regards
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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12 Feb 2008 0:47 how to use icd 2 with 80 pin pics |
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| krzykoz wrote: |
Hi everybody!
I found one little (maby big) problem. After program 8-bit chip (18F4550) and switch to 16-bit low voltage chip (24HJ12GP202) the transistor Q5 (potyo2) didn't block the Vdd voltage and was still 5V (measured and in MPLAB) and in Settings window checkbox was checked, but without posibility to change it... sic!
Which firmware do you use for both chips in Clone?
Regards |
this bug is fixed in the latest potyo edition. it just requires one pullup resistor. see this sch: http://potyo.extra.hu/icd2/potyo2-rev1.zip
you can also find something about this bug in this post: http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic288717.html
however - you just need to power the icd2 down and than - after power up - there will be no VDD on the pins.
anyway - the potyo2 with added pullup still works just fine with pic24hj256gp210.
0x41 0x56 0x45!!
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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13 Feb 2008 13:22 usb clone |
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| Quote: |
| see this sch: http://potyo.extra.hu/icd2/potyo2-rev1.zip |
Ok thx, problem fixed, but I see another one. I don't know how is in practice, but look on the 74HC4066. In datasheet, this chip can be powered with max 10V, in this case (I gues) is powered with 5V. Ok but, the max switch voltage is Vcc (so 5V), in this case is (13V - 5.1V)*(4.7k/(4.7k+1k) = 6,6V! Am I wrong?
Another question. If this chip (HC series) is powered with 5V the min input HI voltage is more than 3.15V! How can it work with 3V levels? It is the same situation like with 74HCT125.
My solution is use 74HCT4066 and power it from ISP-VDD, but the switch voltage must be always 3.3V (Zener diode 3.3V should be connected to GND with anode, to R = 2k2 with cathode and this R to CMOS-EN). You can see this solution on picture (of course instead of HC must be HCT)... Corect me if I'm wrong please...
Regards,
Krzykoz
Btw, did you try to build Explorer 16 board? I would like to start... Invite to topic: http://www.edaboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=294234&highlight=
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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13 Feb 2008 19:36 icd2 to 24f |
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to be honest, I haven't thought about that switch very much - it just works pretty fine with lower voltages. why don't you drop by and see for yourself [; w koncu politechnika zbliza ludzi, isn't it [;
the switch i have is MC74HC4066N.
0x41 0x56 0x45!!
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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14 Feb 2008 9:12 icd2 for pic24fj |
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I had a problems with this switch, I think its depend on the manufacturer. The solution is: use the powering from ISP-VDD and switch voltage 3.3V (with zener like I show on picture) but using the HCT series is not nessesary, because if the power voltage will be 3V (from tgt board) the min HI voltage is less then 2V!, (and switch voltage is still 3.3V).
A propos, what is the goal of use this switch, could you explain me, because I didn't find any purpose except for put the PGC and PGD line in high impedance. Is it nessesary? The first potyo's ICD2 was without it and worked...
Ps. Jaki masz temat pracy dyplomowej? 
Regards!
krzykoz
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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14 Feb 2008 10:12 icd 2 with picf24 |
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it is possible - as you said - to turn those lines to HI-Z with that switch. with the jumper near it, you can change potyo's behaviour to act as a 100% normal debugger, which has those lines connected to the circuit, or - in the other position - to be only a programmer, in which those lines get connected to the target only when VPP is applied, which means only when program operation is in progress. this way - on the target, you can use those lines to whatever you like, and you don't need to disconnect the ICD2 after programming for the device to work - anything can drive the lines, because they are electrically separated from the potyo...
hope you understood my point [;
this feature seems pretty usefull when you don't need debugging, but you need to program target chip which has low pin-count or is highly packed with other stuff on pcb, and those two lines has to be used to do something else. apart from pure comfort, this switch has no other functions [;
P.S. moj temat: miernik charakterystyk czestotliwosciowych urzadzen audio oparty o procesor dsp. a twoj? <:
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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14 Feb 2008 12:19 3.3v 5v translator 2 transistor npn |
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Ok, now I understand the purpose, thx Freddie Chopin!
Ps. What about Explorer 16? http://www.edaboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=294234&highlight=
Ps. Obronilem sie w zeszlym roku... "Generator przebiegow sinusoidalnych na pasmo akustyczne" Przetaktowany PIC18F4431(at)48MHz robil jako generator DDS (bez zewnetrznego AD985x)... Za nim tylko przetwornik, filtr i wzmacniacz
Regards, pozdro!
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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14 Feb 2008 12:22 icd2 + hct126 |
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i know nothing about explorer unfortunately.
0x41 0x56 0x45!!
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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18 Feb 2008 23:42 24hj12gp202 |
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Here is the schematic of my version ICD2, using the Zener diode and powering 74HC4066 from target. I add also DB9 and MAX202 to serial communication... Check it please...
Regards, krzykoz.
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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18 Feb 2008 23:54 mplab icd2 3.3v |
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A propos... do you like Potyo's design?
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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19 Feb 2008 0:37 max3378 level shifter |
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nice visualization - what software do you use? is that EAGLE's vis? [;
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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krzykoz
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
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20 Feb 2008 14:28 programming 3v3 pic icd-2 |
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One mistake in my preview sch. Of course PORTA4 in 4550 should be push down to the GND, and PORTA1 & PORTB7 (PGD) pull up to VUSB. The resistors on base of transistors should have values: R10, R11 = 1.2k, R12 = 390R...
Sorry!
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Zedman
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 312
Helped: 2
Location: Hungary
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28 Mar 2008 12:18 schema clone icd2 |
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Anyone succeded with this level conversion?
I am trying to program a 18F67J10.
I'll try this: http://www.standardics.nxp.com/support/documents/i2c/pdf/an97055.pdf
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Freddie Chopin
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 103
Helped: 6
Location: Poland / Wroclaw
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28 Mar 2008 14:58 eagle 3d db9 |
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everyone succeded... just read this topic...
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Zedman
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 312
Helped: 2
Location: Hungary
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28 Mar 2008 16:00 icd2 explorer 16 icd2 settings |
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danielciurea
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 2
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03 Sep 2008 21:35 convert low voltage trigger to usb |
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Hello,
I also builded an ICD2 "cooked" by me but it is mainly based on the schematics found on this forum.
What I wanted to say is that one of my friends has an explorer 16 board and he tested my ICD on that board. He said that he was able to read program and debug PIC24xxx without any problems.
The data lines are buffered with standard 74HC125/126 and the MCLR/VDD switching matrix is Lothar Stolz's design.
For a better understanding I attached the part of the schematic I was talking about.
On the other using AHC/AHCT drivers will solve this problem for good because the drivers that output the data will be powered from the target's power supply therefore their output logic levels will be scaled according to their supply voltages. The drivers used to input data are permanently suplied from ICD supply lines and their output logic levels are TTL compatible.
This type of drivers are also used on the original ICD2.
.... hope this helps anyone
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El_gocho
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 2
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17 Sep 2008 20:57 usb 3.3v protection |
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Hola a todos!
En la version original del ICD2 no es necesario una fuente para el programador cuando se quiere programar dispositivos PIC24. Mi pregunta es: ¿El clon trabaja de la misma manera? Gracias!
Hello everyone!
In the original version of ICD2 there is no need a source if you want programmer PIC24 devices (3.3V). My question is: Does the clone works the same way? Thank you!
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crystallattice
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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22 Jan 2009 11:21 max3378 utilisé |
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Hi all, I've been reading all the posts regarding the use of clone ICD2 on 3.3v system and understand that the pyto2 is the only one that works.
I've built the PICS version before i read this post. Looking at the diagram of the PICS can it not be modified to work with 3.3V?. Look at diagram found at icd2clone.com, main schematic. If the Vcc feeding T2 was supplied by the target (connect to J2 pin 2), then when RC1 is high, 3.3V would be supplied to the MCLR pin, right? And when T5 is on then 12V will be supplied. This was the only concern that i could find as all the other voltages would still function as needed when pluged into a 5v system.
I've tried the PICS without modification on a 3.3v system and it supplies about 4.65v to the MCLR (J2 pin1) which according to spec is too high, but chip still works...
What do you think of suggestion to fix PICS??
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