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KamalS
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Helped: 5
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 08 Jun 2006 18:09 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Microchip has offered the schematic here :
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023805
From what I gather, the firmware is also available here.
So, before I build it myself, I would like to know if anybody has built the PICKit2 from scratch based on this design ?
Also, is there a better design compared to PICKit but with same/better PIC Compatibility ?
The reason whay I am asking is because I need to clarify a few doubts from the schematic.
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namqn
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Helped: 18
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| 08 Jun 2006 19:03 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Hi,
You can find a lot of information about PICKit2 from this list:
[url=http://groups.google.com/group/pickit-devel][/url]
Also, search for PICKit2 on the Microchip's USB forum.
Cheers,
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togarha
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Helped: 1
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| 05 Sep 2006 14:11 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Hi KamalS,
Have you build your pickit2?? I'm thinking to build my own pickit and I have some questions too...
regards,
togarha
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rkodaira
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 325
Helped: 51
Location: Sao Paulo - Brasil
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| 05 Sep 2006 18:55 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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I built only the 18F2550 with firmware, the oscillator circuitry and the busy led (no DC-DC converter and switching stages and EEPROM memories). I could not have the acknowledgement of the USB device by the PC or by the PICKIT2 software.
I tried also with the firmware from:
http://www.voti.nl/pickit2faq/index.html
But I had no success because I can´t assign a USB drivers to the programmer.
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vsmGuy
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 456
Helped: 23
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| 06 Sep 2006 2:37 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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It's better to buy PICKit2 from Microchip as it's a complete development platform, and not simply a programmer.
If you really want to build, try building the ICD2, but buy the PICKit2 - it's not very expensive.
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Buriedcode
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 316
Helped: 34
Location: London
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| 06 Sep 2006 3:16 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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vsm guy,
I assume the PICkit 2 programmer (not the 'add-on board') can program all of the devices listed on the microchip website? I realise thats what it says, but I wasn't sure if they were talking about the software side of things. If it can program all the devices listed (the entire 'F' series I believe) via ICSP, I'll pick one up, just found that farnell are doing it for 22GBP with some free 6-40 pin PIC's (low end ones) thrown in for free.
Not sure whether to get it or build my own, but at that price I'm forced to get it, when I was oding research into building one, I assumed all USB PIC programmers were expensive, didn't realise that this one came so damn cheap.
About building one from scratch. Microchip have all the files you need, schematic, parts list, firmware (for the 18F2550) USB PC driver for most windows platforms and the PC software for programming. I came > < this close to ordering parts when I found that my distributor actually sold it for half the price of my parts list.
I don't want to hijack the topic, so if anyone has used the 'PICkit 2' on many different PIC's, I'd appreciate a private message about your experiences/reviews.
Thanks
BuriedCode.
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togarha
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Helped: 1
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| 07 Sep 2006 12:27 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Anybody knows if there any posibility to change proposed transistors by microchip schematics to anothers? I can't obtain these transistors in my city...
Regards
togarha
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Buriedcode
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 316
Helped: 34
Location: London
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| 08 Sep 2006 18:34 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Hi
| Quote: |
| Anybody knows if there any posibility to change proposed transistors by microchip schematics to anothers? I can't obtain these transistors in my city... |
Well, looking at the schematic on the installation CD for it, it has 3 MOSFET's and 7 bipolar transistors. Considering it doesn't use/switch large amounts of current (quoted as 100ma max) I tihnk you could substitute almost any MOSFET as long as you get the polarioty right. It needs 2 N-channel MOSFET's, and 1 P-channel. AN N and P are in the same chip in the PICkit2.
As for the bipolar transistors (the normal ones) they're 3 x 3094's (NPN)and 4 x 3096's (PNP). The 3094/6 are general purpose transistors, so almost any substitute can be used (BC108/9? 2N2222A?) again just as long as you get both NPN's and PNP's
Good Luck,
BuriedCode.
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cnc
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 2
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| 10 Sep 2006 14:14 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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| would an ICD2 be better?
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Beowolf
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 135
Helped: 7
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| 11 Sep 2006 19:33 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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It is a programmer and a debugger, so, it's better!
Also, there is an already developed version here on this forum.. I intend to build one in next few weeks, so we'll se...
I'm currently using an borrowed ICD2...
Main question you should ask yourself is how you're gonna develop your project.
I firstly consider the peripherials I need, choose an apropriate PIC, make an schematic with ICSP plug, write the code, test it on simulator, and if it's needed, debug it with ICD.
Developing dedicated functions for interfacing each peripherial saves time, since once you develop it, you just implement it in a project and it works...
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1165
Helped: 58
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| 14 Oct 2006 5:15 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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The PICKIT 2 as of firmware ver 2 only debugs a single PIC (the PIC16F917). An ICD2 can program and debug a great deal more PICs (any 16Fxxx with debug, 18Fxxx, dsPIC etc)
The USB on the PICKIT2 is very nice.
As for the ICD2 clones (the ones without a 18F4550) are no faster or slower than the serial (RS232) version. The 18F4550 and 16F877-20 debug (single step) about 10x faster than the serial version (they run in Parallel Master/Slave mode). If you want to debug in single step mode fast with serial keep don't open too many watch windows.
I would recommend the ICD2 over a PICKIT2.
Here's a quick FAQ on the PICKIT2 http://www.voti.nl/pickit2faq/index_1.html
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 25 Sep 2007 21:45 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Personally, I think the PICkit2 is way better than the ICD2 on easy of use.
Last edited by funnynypd on 04 Oct 2007 5:27; edited 2 times in total |
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1165
Helped: 58
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| 26 Sep 2007 1:52 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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| funnynypd wrote: |
| PICkit2 is way better than the ICD2. |
Have you actually used one? Have you compared it to an ICD2?
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folks
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Helped: 16
Location: Guadalajara
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narccizzo
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 158
Helped: 4
Location: PATZCUARO,MICHOACAN,MEXICO
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| 26 Sep 2007 5:30 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Maybe the PICkit2 is smaller and prettier than the ICD2, but there is a big difference between PROGRAMMING and PROGRAMMING+DEBUGGING.
If someone can develop ALL their programs without the debugging help, PICkit2 its fine, I will keep using ICD2 until a PICkit 3 or 4 comes with debugging option, then we will try to make our own.
regards, narccizzo
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folks
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Helped: 16
Location: Guadalajara
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| 26 Sep 2007 6:38 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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He say this, because he sell the PCB, and of course this is not true.
160 USD vs 35 USD
And by the way, here is a picture of special edition ICD2, this is into the pickit2 package.
Saludos Camarada 
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 29 Sep 2007 8:00 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Check the microchip forume, there is plenty discussion about PICkit 2 and ICD2. Also ask Xiaofan, he is the expert and can tell you the truth.
Microchip web master just post a message on the forume about in circuit debugging capability of PICkit2 couple of days ago.
| togarha wrote: |
| Anybody knows if there any posibility to change proposed transistors by microchip schematics to anothers? I can't obtain these transistors in my city... |
I do have change the MMBT3904 with MMBT2222 without any issue.
As far as the MOSFET and diode, you got be very careful since they do affect the voltage a lot.
| Beowolf wrote: |
| It is a programmer and a debugger, so, it's better! |
So does PICkit2 (Please check the new released MPLAB V7.62). And new post on Microchip forum.
Functionally they are identical (PICkit2 has a little more on programming the EEPROM, but you can ignore this as microcontroller user).
Design Architecture point of view, PICkit2 is simpler and powerful since it is designed many years later than the ICD2, you don't even need install an USB driver as ICD2 required.
And most important: it is lot cheaper and it doesn’t have the exchange support from microchip.
| Quote: |
| Have you actually used one? Have you compared it to an ICD2? |
I have used both, also other Microchip supper expensive development tools.
ICD2 is ok, not great. PICkit2 is getting better and better. This we have already seen from Microchip's updates and web post. As far as the future of both tools, we will see.
And the beauty of PICKit2 is: its hardware is open-sourced.
Can anyone tell me what the real “new” microchip ICD2 schematic is, and what they really were? The clones work, can anyone say they are 100% identical? Especially for those 3.3V PIC18FJ parts? That I don't know.
But with the help and open-sourced schematic from Microchip, users can build your own PICkit2. If things happened, user can also debug and trace problems using the standard schematic and fix the issue. For beginner and some of the user, this might be important than send the failed ones back to Microchip and wait for the replacements.
I did return many ICD2 back to Microchip, the last exchange is this August, for quite a while (my boss don't want to pay next day or 2nd day shipping), I have to borrow one from college to debug and program my software in almost a whole week.
| Quote: |
| Have you actually used one? Have you compared it to an ICD2? |
I used both. I didn't compare them. Someone compared them in Microchip's forum. On the PICkit2 side, there is even hardware function, which Microchip's own guy still don't know, or for sure what it is designed for.
| rkodaira wrote: |
I built only the 18F2550 with firmware, the oscillator circuitry and the busy led (no DC-DC converter and switching stages and EEPROM memories). I could not have the acknowledgement of the USB device by the PC or by the PICKIT2 software.
I tried also with the firmware from:
http://www.voti.nl/pickit2faq/index.html
But I had no success because I can´t assign a USB drivers to the programmer. |
1st of all, you don't need a PC driver. This is the beauty of plug and play. Way better than ICD2.
2nd, the MPLAB or PICKit2.4 has the firmware under their folder, just find/borrow a program toolset (such as another PICkit 2 or ICD 2) you can re-program the chipset.
Last edited by funnynypd on 04 Oct 2007 5:43; edited 9 times in total |
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1165
Helped: 58
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| 29 Sep 2007 15:26 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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The PICKit2 and ICD2 are hardly functionally identical. The PICKit2 is a neat programmer, but it supports nothing higher than an 18 series PIC. No 10F chips are supported either.
Read the release notes on Microchips site.
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contagiouseddie
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 59
Helped: 2
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| 29 Sep 2007 16:59 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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PICKit2 started off as a programmer when it was 1st introduced. I remembered burning them in the very 1st day I use. But, at this moment there's a lot of devices that can be programmed and even debug, running in MPLAB although the dsPIC & PIC24 series has not been able to be debugged just yet.
ICD2 LE is usually sold during those seminar held by Microchip. I was offered this during their 16-bit MCU seminar selling at USD75 but never buy them but instead made myself a PICkit2. But I guess buying PICkit2 would be cheaper unless you can get the PIC18F2550 free (if you know what I mean,  ).
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 29 Sep 2007 19:29 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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| blueroomelectronics wrote: |
The PICKit2 and ICD2 are hardly functionally identical. The PICKit2 is a neat programmer, but it supports nothing higher than an 18 series PIC. No 10F chips are supported either.
Read the release notes on Microchips site. |
Even the Microchip Real ICE doesn't support the 10F chip. Can you claim it is a lower end tool than the ICD2 just because of that?
This will be decided mainly by Microchip marketing and engineering, we might only influence a little by post "wish list".
Technology point of view, nothing is impossible.
On some aspect, we cannot compare the PICKit2 and ICD2 in the way we compare Gasoline and Diesel engine.
Also the end user will make their own decision; just like there are people who are more favor to the diesel engine like the Europeans.
Please See the attachement.
The MPLAB is currently beta support. More will be coming.
Added after 1 minutes:
where is my picture? The post system might have a bug.
However you can see from this link:
http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic273740.html
Last edited by funnynypd on 04 Oct 2007 5:45; edited 4 times in total |
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folks
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Helped: 16
Location: Guadalajara
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1165
Helped: 58
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| 30 Sep 2007 4:52 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Well in review of the amount of students that want a cheap basic programmer I'm putting together a PICKit2 clone. Basic 5V design only to keep the price down. I'm also combining it with the Firefly kit (16F88 tutor)
The PICKit2 makes a nice cheap programmer with debug support. While not as powerful as an ICD2 it's very simple to make and supports many popular 16F & 18F PICs.
PS I was wrong, if you use the software for PICKit2 (not MPLAB) you can program the 10F PICs
New kit will be called Junebug
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narccizzo
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 158
Helped: 4
Location: PATZCUARO,MICHOACAN,MEXICO
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| 30 Sep 2007 9:30 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Ok, I see that new pickit2 version has also debugger capabilities, its cheaper (original, clone and homemade versions), also supports 10 and 12 series even serial memories like 24, 25 and better of all it is open source. And it seems the firmware versions are growing fast I Think the guy is right. It looks extremelly easy to build than the ICD2. What do you think?
Un saludo para mi paisano de Jalisco.
narccizzo
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blueroomelectronics
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1165
Helped: 58
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| 30 Sep 2007 17:07 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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| I'm testing the design with a minimal PICKit2 design, no EEPROMs, no clamp transistors, no variable VDD.
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 30 Sep 2007 17:13 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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As a DIYer designer, you can do whatever you want and still make staff working. Good job.
Here is another PICkit 2 clone on production already with SMD design. Basiclly it is an open source design, anyone can get the schematic from this forum, modify it, change it and enjoy it.
Compare with Microhip's design (both without enclosure), both support external power supply.
Raw PCB and full components are also available here.
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Hardware-CB0703.htm
Assembly drawing showing here:
Fully assembled product with life-time warranty are also available:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/System-PICkit2.htm
Last edited by funnynypd on 12 Nov 2007 20:10; edited 13 times in total |
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 30 Sep 2007 19:59 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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How could I turn on the picture as many other did?
Figured out.
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 24 Oct 2007 18:03 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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| narccizzo wrote: |
Ok, I see that new pickit2 version has also debugger capabilities, its cheaper (original, clone and homemade versions), also supports 10 and 12 series even serial memories like 24, 25 and better of all it is open source. And it seems the firmware versions are growing fast I Think the guy is right. It looks extremelly easy to build than the ICD2. What do you think?
Un saludo para mi paisano de Jalisco.
narccizzo |
Agree.
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funnynypd
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 641
Helped: 15
Location: USA
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| 12 Nov 2007 20:07 Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Size comparing with the ICD2 (both with enclosure).
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rkodaira
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 325
Helped: 51
Location: Sao Paulo - Brasil
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| 12 Nov 2007 23:29 Re: Building the PICKit2 from scratch |
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Ok guys, you have encouraged me to continue my tests on DIY PICKIT2. Now I managed to have my prototype (breadboard built with the 18F2550, crystal, etc) to be recognized by the PC and PICKIT2 software and also by the MPLAB 8. Although I did not build the eeproms (I have the 24LC512) and the switch transistors circuits, the DC-DC converter (12V) worked well and passed in the test. I need some time to draw a PCB layout for my components (all dip through hole) components).
Obs: I have one ICD2LE for debugging, but the PICKIT2 software is lighter and easier to use for burning purposes, so I think it worths to be built.
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