Bluetooth RF Transceiver and baseband controler borad design

Bluetooth RF Transceiver and baseband controler borad design
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yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

24 Jun 2002 3:19

junglejenny,
Thank U very much.
It seems that in the CSR' flash, there R not only HCI but also upper protocols like SDP, RFcom.
If only use HCI of CSR, it is of course free, but if use uppper protocols, must pay for them.
For I donot want to use our own MPU and Flash , SDRAM, etc., they R so big that I cannot place them into a small board.
So I want to use CSR' MPU in the module to implement our own upper protocols.
Then I must use Bluelab.
And Bluelab is not for custom's own protocols stack(including uppper protocols over HCI) but just for application development? What application ? Can Access Point appliction be OK ?
Does this mean that we all must use the CSR's protocols stack if we use CSR's BT module without outer MPU ? And our own protocols stack is no longer be used at all ? Then what work we have done on stack programming in ucLinux is worthless and we have to pay for CSR'stack ?

Do U have any idea ?

When I install Bluelab on win2000,it said "Cygwin"may be installed first.
I do not know what "Cygwin" is and where to find.

Best regards.

Smokey

Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 41
Location: India

24 Jun 2002 4:21

Hi guys,

I am embarking upon an experiment with CSR BC2 module using the UART interface. I know of many applications / drivers that use the module under win98 / linux. My application requires the module to work with an 8bit MCU (8051).

Is there a simple set of commands I can use on the serial port of the 8051 to set up a pico-net with 5 other similar modules connected to 8051 processors ?

Is there some sort of a simple commands (like modem AT commands) that can be issued over the serial port of the 8051 to initalize the module and get connected ?

Any help in this regard would be appreciated.

Smokey

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

24 Jun 2002 4:43

Smokey,
Nice 2 meet U here.
How aout Ur GSM antenna ?

And I am interest in what U want to do by 8051.
Especially how to run so many protocols on so small a MCU.

Thank U .

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

24 Jun 2002 9:48

Smokey wrote:

Hi guys,

I am embarking upon an experiment with CSR BC2 module using the UART interface. I know of many applications / drivers that use the module under win98 / linux. My application requires the module to work with an 8bit MCU (8051).

Is there a simple set of commands I can use on the serial port of the 8051 to set up a pico-net with 5 other similar modules connected to 8051 processors ?

Is there some sort of a simple commands (like modem AT commands) that can be issued over the serial port of the 8051 to initalize the module and get connected ?

Hi Smokey.

As yet there are no low level commands that can be issued to a dumb BC2 module via uart that will make it do its stuff.
But do not panic that is being worked on because other people are wanting that feature.

Phil

Any help in this regard would be appreciated.

Smokey

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

24 Jun 2002 9:58

I think that ,
now the CSR's module has stack on it , I can just use 89C51(8051) and UART controller such as MAX3100 or PC16550 to interface to it.
Can I ???

Smokey

Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 41
Location: India

24 Jun 2002 15:03

Hi Yellowtooth !

I gave up on the idea of a GSM Antenna on the PCB - used a regular L-type whip antenna - works well - project completed - everybody happy !

On the Bluetooth front, I want to use the bluetooth module as a black box - I have read the BlueCore Serial Protocol (BCSP) datasheet. This is the closest to what I need at the moment - but still requires a lot of software on the host MCU. The AT Command option would be really cool !

BTW, has anybody evaluated the Broadcomm single chip solution (BCM2033) ? How does it compare with the CSR BC2 ?

Does anyboady have any UART protocol data for the BCM2033 ? do they have anything similar to CSR's BCSP ?

Rgds,

Smokey

Smokey

Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 41
Location: India

24 Jun 2002 15:09

Hi Phil,

It looks like you have some inside info on what's cooking at CSR ... in this regard do you know the status of the BC-2 Class 1 solution ? is it ready ? released ? ..

I need a class 1 solution for the extra range (100m). I am not able to find a BC-2 solution that is ready .. I believe BCM2033 based modules are ready now ..

.. any timelines on the availability of the `AT' commands on the BC-2 ? .. this will be a killer app / reason for making people want to use BT !!

Rgds,

Smokey

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

24 Jun 2002 16:02

Smokey wrote:

Hi Smokey.

It does not work Confused

The power output is quite poor and the software interface is poor.
It only has an E2prom interface so forget haveing 8Mb of sofware.
It also needs a large amount of external components to make it work as
well as a BC2.

Let me know how you fare with it.

Phil Surprised

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

24 Jun 2002 16:06

Smokey wrote:

Hi Smokey, As far as I am aware the BC2 class1 4 layer design using the SiGe PA is available now. It is not a design you can just go and get made.
You should copy it and track your signals into the module area where the connections stop.
You may have to get it under concession from CSR.
I am assured that the low level comands are being worked on right now as we speak. I should expect some info fairly soon, I believe there are a number of other people also waiting for that info.

Phil Cool

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

25 Jun 2002 15:32

BC02 based class1 (+12dBm typ.) HCI-Module e.g. ALPS UGXZ1X1__A (USB), UGXZ1X2__A (BCSP), UGXZ1X7__A (H4), but i think, it's still preliminary, because i have no samples yet

Smokey

Joined: 21 Dec 2001
Posts: 41
Location: India

25 Jun 2002 17:11

It looks like a lot of mfrs are waiting in the wings to launch their own module version of CSR and Broadcomm chipsets. Most of them are at final testing stage.

TI is joining the fray with a super high integration single chip solution - priced at uS$ 4.00 for 10K volume (Press release on web-site). The chip (BRF6100) is currently sampling - MP in September '02.

Things are hotting up in the BT arena !

Regards,

Smokey

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

25 Jun 2002 20:58

All

Keep your eyes on the Press announcements regarding CSR chips.
Something big or should I say very small is happening......
That is all

Phil

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

25 Jun 2002 21:02

drdevcon wrote:

BC02 based class1 (+12dBm typ.) HCI-Module e.g. ALPS UGXZ1X1__A (USB), UGXZ1X2__A (BCSP), UGXZ1X7__A (H4), but i think, it's still preliminary, because i have no samples yet

Hi drdevcon.

I have seen a class1 module based on the CSR BC2 external but not designed by CSR achieving +17dBm and passing testing.
Cannot say more than that, but you are right a typical class1 BC2 is +14dBm typ.

Phil Cool

coolitrom

Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 15

18 Jan 2003 17:59

Are bluetooth devices interoperable--can a chip from one vendor work with a chip from another vendor?

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

18 Jan 2003 22:22

coolitrom wrote:

Are bluetooth devices interoperable--can a chip from one vendor work with a chip from another vendor?

Hi coolitrom.

In theory the answer is yes.
In practice it is not always the case. Some of the earlier chips are not compliant to the latest BT specs and therfore may not work with another vendor who has a newer chip.
However the newer chips should all interop without any problem.

Phil Wink

Rayengine

Joined: 18 May 2001
Posts: 314
Helped: 3

19 Jan 2003 1:56

Hi Phil woz ere,

I knew you are very deep in knowledge in Bluetooth discussion, can I ask some question on this topic?
(1) What the one the major player in RF and transceiver design, - CSR, Philips, Ericcson (I knew she has been combined to Infineon), Motorola or or newcomer.

(2) Any single chip (baseband + RF), I heard about one year ago when the topic was very hot, some fabless design house has planned to issue this kind of IC.

(3) Any formal test is imposed in govern the hopping sequences because I don't know is it any regular pattern or just fixed frequency for test. Is any written test like GSM, DECT in ETSI specification.

Just interesting for discussion.

Best Rgs

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

20 Jan 2003 13:30

Rayengine wrote:

Hi RGS.

The answer is the real players are now CSR and Infineon. most of the others have dropped by the wayside and are not really competitive.
Although I have heard rumours about TI having a low cost solution.

Most of the Bluetooth chip companys now offer a single cmos chip that includes Baseband, RF and even the flash or masked rom.
Two chip solutions are no longer cost effective

For testing information and standards you need to visit:
http://www.bluetooth.com/
this is the official site that has links to all relative information.

Hope this helps.
Phil Cool

snowwhite

Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 1

05 Jun 2003 15:47

how to simulate LNA with ADS ?

Ciber
Guest

24 Jul 2003 11:42

As I know, TI also can provide a single-chip solution called Island. It has already passed the BQB test. So, you can also consider about it.

olive

Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Posts: 14
Location: Paris

25 Jul 2003 10:21

Today most Bluetooth modules only have low layers up to HCI. Usually, these modules are connected to another CPU (PDA, Mobile phone, computer) which has the power and the memory to take care of the upper layers. One more thing is that as you know there is not one bluetooth protocol, you have a lot of profiles. That is why your need (HCI only module) is 99% of bluetooth modules market.
For chipsets go to CSR, Broadcom, TI, Philips, Infineon, Silicon Wave, NS, etc.
For miniature modules, alps, murata, tayo yuden, etc.
For USB modules with antenna, there are hundreds of manufacturers.
Look for "Bluetooth module" on the web and enjoy.

Velund

Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Russia

27 Jul 2003 16:48

Well, looks like this topic was silent for long (if dates in headers is correct).

Is there much changes with availability of OEM BT modules for a small volume buyers? I dig deeper and found some inexpensive modules based on CSR BlueCore 02 External (I think it is just reference design reproduced one-to-one) made in China. But MOQ is 500 pcs...

Is there sources other than btdesigner for samples/small lots? For now, looks like it will be cheaper to buy PenBlue dongles (manufactured by Mavin) and remove generic CSR BC-02E module and ceramic antenna from there. The only problem is firmware - I can't get that module to work with serial port (yes, there all three ports present and all is well described at Mavin website - they offer this modules separately, too, but can't get the reply with price and MOQ from them...)

And another question - is there any evaluation Wink

version of blab/bsuite on the net?

PS: Mavin dongles is available for about $25 + shipping on eBay. Local guys here, in Russia, ask $60 for the same... Wink

Module inside is exactly the same as OEM module offered by Mavin.

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