Bluetooth RF Transceiver and baseband controler borad design

Bluetooth RF Transceiver and baseband controler borad design
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yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

26 Mar 2002 6:47

Who know which chip should be used to complete a module with above functions ?
thx.

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

26 Mar 2002 10:00

you could use various chipsets, but I would prefer to use a ready built and certified module.
have a look at w*w.btdesigner.com

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

27 Mar 2002 2:11

drdevcon ,

Thank U for Ur response.

I do not want to use the module, for they R more expensive, and I can not change frequency as I want. For every thing is done by it internally, not permitting to change.

I have searched some chips from internet, but have not their application note in detail.

you said "various chipsets", would U PLZ suggest some ?

thx again.

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

27 Mar 2002 21:27

maybe you should first explain what you want to do. Why do you want to change the frequency manually? Bluetooth is based on frequency-hopping with 1600 hops per second on 80 different frequencys and the hopping-sequence will be calculated in the lower layers of the bluetooth-stack based on the BT-Address of the Piconet-Master, so it makes no sense in my eyes.
But it is possible to send and receive on single frequencys (implemented for RF-Test and certification) with special HCI-commands.

Chipsets: I would suggest CSR Bluecore.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

28 Mar 2002 9:05

My aim is to test the spectrum and the power of it, but my one (Ericsson ROK007) do not have that test mode like U said with special HCI-commands. (Maybe I donot see how to use it)

And I wnat to study the manner of its hop, I want to change it ,i.e. not just base on BT-address, but also check if the frequency is occupied.

The third, I will replace it with separate components, which would be less expensive.

What do U mean that "makes no sense in my eyes", (my English is not good)

How much is the CSR BT-module ? and I cannot find where to download the detailed datasheet.

Thank U verymuch, and best regards to U.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

29 Mar 2002 2:49

drdevcon,
I have inquireed the price of the module and the chip, for $40 and $10 respectively.
But I have to buy its kit and soft which are more esspensive, $3000.
So, if I only buy the chip, can I use it without many problem of how to control it ?
Or in another word, can I just contol it with a 89C51 ?

Thank U

mskim

Joined: 27 Mar 2002
Posts: 11

29 Mar 2002 3:12
tags: bluecore04 csr chipset bluecore04

CSR chipset!!!!!!
BlueCore01 is Prototype your Bluetooth equipped product.
BlueCore01M is Optimise your Bluetooth equipped Product.
BlueCore02 is 1chip solution for mass market Bluetooth product.
BlueCore03 & BlueCore04 is Ture stand alone solution.

Itegrated Bluetooth protocol fast route to market.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

29 Mar 2002 8:45

Do U have reference design schematics of CSR ??
If so , upload it , PLZ.
And I will follow it to finish my design.
Thank U.

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

29 Mar 2002 13:56

Yes, I have the reference designs, maybe i will DL it next week. Don't think about to build the module by yourself, because:
1. CSR-Bluecore is an BGA
2. you have to add at least a 4M-Flash (also BGA)
3. the PCB is a 6-Layer-Design
But if you really want to do it, i can send you the whole stuff( Schematics, gerber...)

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

30 Mar 2002 2:07

Hi drdevcon ,
I will realy appreciate it if U UL (not DL) it.

12The CSR is BGA, why the flash is BGA too, can I change it with lead package ?
3I would rather make a double side PCB board than 6-layer, even it will be larger than before.
And I will be helped by my teachers and my classmates.
So,I have decided to do it, PLZ send it to my E-mail: liutongxx(at)163.com (25M) and liutong89(at)sina.com (5M) .
Thank U very much.

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

04 Apr 2002 12:37

I UL some data about CSR based Modules to FM1/drdevcon/bc01modules.
Also included are schematics and Gerber-data for different modules and some datasheets
Bluel(at)b2.0 is alredy in FM1/drdevcon/blab
next i will UL Bluesuite to FM1/drdevcon/bsuite

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

08 Apr 2002 2:23

Sorry for not response .
I cannot link internet on sat and sunday.
Thank U for Ur help.
I am dowloading....

antipattern

Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 25

08 Apr 2002 5:30

I would suggest you to buy a CSR module that is compatible with OpenBT, and forget about the expensive development kits such as Casira, it is a dumb version of the module bundled with some bulky but not so useful accessories. In case you can get the firmware upgrade from elektroda, the Casira is really meaningless.

Either BlueZ and OpenBT are running on Linux with full source code available, so you may start with tweaking them.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

08 Apr 2002 10:36

antipattern,
Thank U for Ur message.
I am not very familar with the Bluetooth.
So I donot know what the Casira is.
I only want to design a module by myself to replace the CSR one , which is much more expensive than the chip BC01b-USB.
Can U suggest more ?

drdevcon,
I have DL all the files,
but I donot know how to use them actly.
Would U plz tell me the usage of them in detail ?

[ This Message was edited by: yellowtooth on 2002-04-08 11:40 ]

drdevcon

Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 24

08 Apr 2002 11:04
tags: csr pstool

at first: U can only use the soft if you own a CSR-Base BT-Module.
But the U can:
With Pstools (Bluesuite): read and write internal settings of the module
With Blueflash (Bluesuite): change firmware of the module
With Bluetest (Bluesuite): make some measurements and tests of BT-Connections (like BER, Fieldstrength and so on)

With Bluelab U can develop small Applications ( like Headset-Profile) running onchip in the CSR-Module.

And maybe you should also read this:
Ebook: *B*l*u*e*t*o*o*t*h* Application Developer’s Guide
http://www.elektroda.pl/eboard/viewtopic.php?topic=17798&forum=30&0

antipattern

Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 25

08 Apr 2002 11:26

Casira is just the development kit provided by CSR, with drdevcon's upload, I think you can development the application by buying a CSR module instead of the expensive kit.

However, I think you are not targeting to design an application using bluetooth module, but the module or the chip itself, right?

You may find this project interesting if so.

http://www.opencores.org/projects/bluetooth/

Thanks drdevcon's upload, it is really nice.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

10 Apr 2002 2:15

thank U 2 very much.

antipattern ,
I am in a student group working for Bluetooth. All of them R working for protocol, and I must prepare the hardware of it. So I have to design the RF module but not the chip , for the chip's cost will much more expensive than module.
Can U give me some suggestions ?
my E-mail: liutongxx(at)yahoo.com
thank U again.

linjyh

Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 23
Location: Taiwan

10 Apr 2002 6:20

Thanks to everybody, CSR must be a good choice. i found a good c*dec for it as uploaded.
Would anyone please give a suggestion about 3V power man*gement IC for CSR module, Thanks!

Uploaded file: MC145483.pdf

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

11 Apr 2002 2:35

R U sure that there is a IC to control the CSR module ?
I think the CSR module is just can be interfaced to PC or othe kind CPU.
Am I right ?

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

11 Apr 2002 3:00

R U sure there is a chip to be used 4 the CSR module management ?

I think that it must be a CPU or PC that control the CSR module.

linjyh

Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 23
Location: Taiwan

11 Apr 2002 5:29

There are some power saving mode built in CSR. But the "power" management need be considered for portable device such as headset.It should handle battery d2d conversion and On/OFF function for saving energy. Only management for power not for CSR.

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

12 Apr 2002 5:05

Oh,I see.
I donot know if the CSR have a powerdown mode.
Or u just control the power supply for it ?
If so , I think , the control must be total functional that include both baseband and power.

always@smart

Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Posts: 308
Helped: 7
Location: ASIA

17 Apr 2002 4:50

antipattern,
can u tell me,by using casira kit,can i use it to develop an application for printer.currently,i'm doing the reserch on bluetooh,and i just started to observe this technology.
so pls give some suggestion on doing an printer application,such as:
1.tools to be used
2.chips or module to be used
3.profile,
and etc..

thank you

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

17 Jun 2002 8:07 How to add protocols to the firmware of CSR ?

I do not want to use the protocols provided by CSR which may be charged. I want to use my own protocols edit by my classmates, and write them into the ROM . But we only have the upper protocols to HCI, so we must use the CSR HCI protocol.
Can we mix our protocols and the CSR HCI into one firmware ? How ?
Thank U.

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

17 Jun 2002 23:30

CSR Class2 module

Just for ref to all you out there playing with bluetooth.

First lets put things into perspective

Forget BC01 that is now old hat, do not design it in.

Modules based on CSR BC2 class1 and 2 are both 4 layer FR4 designs.
There is as yet no BC3 or BC4.

BC2 is uart and or USB. (BC2 Rom has internal Rom)(BC2 Audio has internal Codec).

To connect to computer all you need is the USB drivers from CSR.
A module made using the free CSR gerber files (And a chip)
A cable to connect from the module to the USB port.

The Casira and Microsira are development platforms for use when trial interfacing with other bluetooth solutions or when developing software.

And yes BC2 does have power saving modes when being used in a headset.

That is it very simple, All thanks to CSR for the free stuff andd long may it continue

Does this help
Phil

Last edited by Phil woz ere on 18 Jun 2002 9:30; edited 1 time in total

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

18 Jun 2002 3:59

philpage,
Thank U.
What do U mean "free stuff " ? The gerb files ? Have U ever use them to make Ur own PCB board ? Is it convenient to buy the components such as flash ,crystal and bluecore ?
Do U have bluelab ?
I can not link to FM1 now, can U E-mail it to me ?
liutongxx(at)163.com
Thank U.

Phil woz ere

Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 136
Helped: 2
Location: UK

18 Jun 2002 8:22 CSR Class2 module

CSR give away gerber schematics, gerber files and a bom to enable customers to build a class2 module that can be used for testing with.
You may also copy that layout directly into your own design ( This is highly recommended by CSR as they have done all the hard work in getting the RF layout right.

I also understand that if you are asupported customer ytou can get the class1 files under concession. These files are to be copied into your design and not used for direct manufacture.

Csr also give away a number of example designs (Schematics) which they
have already built and tested and are happy with.

And I do not have Bluelab, No need for it in what I do

Hope this helps.
Phil Laughing

yellowtooth

Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Helped: 1

22 Jun 2002 2:21 Must I use the CSR's stack ?

Can I substitute my own stack (over HCI, i.e. SDP,RFcomm,...)for CSR's in firmware by Bluelab ?

For I donot want to pay for the CSR's stack while I already have my own one that many of my classmates write it in C under ucLinux.

If not, what can I do with my own stack ? Just discard it ? It have taken my classmates much more time to implement .

Thank U all.

MrEd

Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 104
Location: the Singularity

23 Jun 2002 21:37

A module from ALPS

MrEd

New Products Information ALPS ELECTRIC CO.,LTD.
----------------------------------------------- www3.alps.co.jp

<<Bluetooth(TM) Module UGXZ2 Series>>
Small,thin and light; 10(W) x 10(D) x 1.9(H)mm and volume of 0.2 ml.

Features:
*Industry's smallest, thinnest, lightest class, with outline
dimensions of 10(W) x 10(D) x 1.9(H)mm, volume of 0.2 ml
based on our unique RF design and highdensity packaging technology
such as bear-chip packaging.
*Low power consumption.
*UART interface supported.
*Built-in flash memory.
*Bluetooth(TM) specification Ver.1.1 compliant.
*2.8 V single supply voltage input with integrated regulator.

Applications:
*Mobile phones, PCs, Personal Digital Assistances, Terminal Adaptors,
Digital Cameras, Printers,and Other Peripheral Devices.

http://www3.alps.co.jp/indexnpv_rf-e.html

junglejenny

Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 76

24 Jun 2002 0:08

YellowTooth
To my experiece, when you buy a CSR based module, it is already programmed with the standard firmware issued by CSR.
You don't need to pay CSR anything. You would use HCI to communicate with the chip. There are a few issues that you must
be aware of. Like most companies, CSR does not get involved with companies unless they want huge numbers of their chips.
There are a group of commands called manufacturer specific commands which you will not have access to unless you've
bought a Casira development kit. There are several tools for communicating with the chip's persistant store and also firmware upgrades are regularly posted on their secure site which is accesable by casira owners.

Bluelab is a development tool for very basic small applications to run on Bluecore itself and if you are using an external
stack then it is no good to you.

Are you aware as good as the code from your class mates may be, you can not really call it bluetooth unless it's been qualified.

JJ

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