WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

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sofia

Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 8

20 Jan 2005 9:28 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I have some experience of working on the Atmel Microcontrollers (89c51, 89c52). Whenever i am on the internet (forums, websites etc etc) or read some magzine......every1 talks abt PIC micros....i wanna know that WHATS SO SPECIAL ABOUT THE PIC MICROCONTROLLERS, what PIC microcontroller can do and Atmel microcontroller (like 89c51, 89c52) cannot.

stop using CAPS LOCK here!!!
Or do you mean to yell and shout here???
/davorin

nand_gates

Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 907
Helped: 120

20 Jan 2005 10:03 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I suggest you yourself find out. There are ebooks on PIC here.
89c51, 89c52 are CISC machines where as PIC are RISC machines (Harward Architecture)
with features like WDT, PWM, ADC onchip. They are faster compare to 89c51 and 89c52.
Since PIC is a RISC microcontroller, that means that it has a reduced set of instructions, more precisely 35 instructions . (ex. Intel's and Motorola's microcontrollers have over hundred instructions) All of these instructions are executed in one cycle except for jump and branch instructions. According to what its maker says, PIC16F84 usually reaches results of 2:1 in code compression and 4:1 in speed in relation to other 8-bit microcontrollers in its class.

leonqin

Joined: 07 Nov 2001
Posts: 461
Helped: 1
Location: China

20 Jan 2005 10:11 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I don't like PIC's 8bit uC.more dificult to program,the ONLY reason to select it MAY BE CHIPEAP than others.

samcheetah

Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 672
Helped: 31
Location: Pakistan

20 Jan 2005 10:45 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

just 35 instructions for the 16F series and you call that difficult to program???

well sofia actually PIC micros have been here for quite a while. the family of PIC microcontrollers is huge and it is still growing. a great number of people have worked with PICs and therefore there is a huge amount of code for PICs available on the internet. as opposed to the 8051 derivatives it is based on a RISC architecture so it is easy to program. if you have some experience with microcontrollers then you wouldnt have any difficulty understanding the capabilities of PIC microcontrollers. go to the microchip website and see for yourself the numerous applications where PICs are being used.

and if you have any more questions plz do ask

trigger74

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Helped: 4

20 Jan 2005 10:52 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

PIC, I can find some pin-to-pin compatible taiwan brand ICs (at least half price as compared to original one) to replace while I got a very few choice for 8051 ones.

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20 Jan 2005 10:52 Ads

g579

Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 476
Helped: 14
Location: Somewhere

20 Jan 2005 12:02 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Hi trigger74,

Please give the replacement brand with pin to pin compatibility to PICs
Thanks
g579

Picstudent

Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 536
Helped: 13
Location: India

20 Jan 2005 12:09 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

samcheetah wrote:

just 35 instructions for the 16F series and you call that difficult to program???

hai
I think reduced instruction set really made programing difficult rather than making it easy.just consider the multiplication of 8 bit numbers, 8051 can do it straight ,but in PIC 'you' have to do that.
PIC or 8051 , generally only a matter of choice but for certain applications one family may seem to be easier than other.
If you think PIC is faster because of 1 instruction in 4 clocks,there are 8051 derivatives which executes 1 instruction in one clock.(Cygnal).
Better to be at least femilier with both!

Picstudent

jetal

Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 19
Location: Australia

20 Jan 2005 13:30 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Here are my experiences.

I have worked with 8051's and their derivatives. No other micro family can claim as many manufacturers of compatible parts than the old 8051. The advantage was that they were all compatible even at binary level (ie the hex file from one would work in another, provided you didn't use any "special features" of the variant). All the other MCU families in general are only source code compatible.

As for 8-bit micro's - I think the nicest and the easisest to use are the Atmel AVR's.
I have tried PICs, but have been burnt too many times with the subtle differences between the variants. The variants are both the advantage and the disadvantage of the PICs. You can usually find a PIC to fit your application, but the little differences between them make it very hard to write reuseable code.

For a normal MCU project where the codeing and design cost rather than the actual component cost is the biggest factor, you simply make a general purpose board with the biggest member of the family (the Mega128) and populate it with components (like interface driver chips) and connectors as necessary for each project. You really don't need all the MCU variants unless your product is a mass produced cost sensitive item.

A real advantage with the AVR is that it was designed to be programmed in C - the instruction set lends itself to very efficient C programming. Most C constructs transform directly into AVR instructions - almost all of which run in 1 clock cycle in all AVRs.

Best of all, Atmel makes a top notch developer kit (STK-500) for US$79 and there are free (GCC) as well as low cost commercial (Imagecraft and Codevision) compilers that are very good quality (their demos are perfectly useable for most hobby applications as well - the limitations are not too severe)

PICs are popular but I think AVRs are the best 8-bit micros. If you need anything faster, you might as well go with 32-bit ARM's.
Check out www.avrfreaks.net for more info.

XNOX_Rambo

Joined: 13 Jul 2002
Posts: 437
Helped: 87
Location: Far out, man!

20 Jan 2005 13:46 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Well, when I first started using the 8051 it was said to be a RISC MCU, but since
then the PIC has reduced the number of instructions even more... Wink

I don't regard having to use more of fewer instructions to do something, that can
be done with one instruction, as an improvement. Code written in 8051 assembler
is much easier to follow than PIC code. If one uses a high-level language this
it is of course of no importance.

I seldom see any comments about the great boolean processor operations that the
8051 has. It has 9 more bit operations than the PIC - for instance "JB" that performs
a jump if a bit is set.
Not only the registers are bit-addressable but also a part of the internal RAM, which
gives you 144 bit variables to be used by the boolean processor.
A great asset, if you know how to use it.

Just my two cents.

/Rambo

PS And yes, I like Pascal too. Wink

trigger74

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Helped: 4

20 Jan 2005 17:31 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Check this link for one of the brand: http://www.mdtic.com.tw/English/prodview.htm
where you can replace PIC (low grade versions).

But you need software to change the code into their format and use OTHER programmer to program the chip, for example, Hi-Lo system ALL-11 series universal programmer.

There are other brands also can do the same but I forget their exact brand names, something like EMC, madison.......

leemarrow

Joined: 03 May 2001
Posts: 294
Helped: 1

21 Jan 2005 9:30 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

sofia wrote:

Because the pic micro are easier to find on the market

Bingo600

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 239
Helped: 14

21 Jan 2005 22:19 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

sofia wrote:

Im not looking to start a "uC War , and i dont know the specs of the latest pics like the DsPic" but IMHO the Atmel AVR is much faster than the pic , has same features like timers,pwm,hardware-I2C , SPI , more Ram/Flash , has Free development via GCC , has an excellent Simulator Free.

As i see it PIc came first and has a tremendous code base , and Microchip has made many more usable APP-Notes (he..he) even i sneek over there to get some for some of my AVR projects.

I chose AVR and will prob soon also do ARM , and i have not regretted it.

And have a fine functional FREE development suite.

/Bingo

Regnum

Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 264
Helped: 12
Location: Hurlingham

21 Jan 2005 23:42 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I would reformulate your question as follows:

Microchip is becoming ubiquitous in the media... what does Microchip have than Atmel (or whatever) doesn't ?

so, the answer comes implicit in the question: A MORE AGGRESSIVE MARKETING STRATEGY.

sorrry for the caps... you shouted first!. Smile

Regards

albert22

Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 95
Helped: 3

22 Jan 2005 1:01 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I guess that the success of the PIC was that Microchip was the first to provide:
- A single chip MCU with almost no external parts.
- EPROM and OTP parts. And more important an EEPROM part (16c84)
- Easy to program with full info. on the programming algorithms. including an app
note describing a simple programmer.
- Good datasheets online.
- Free development tools online.
- Cheap parts.

This made it possible to get the chip for a few dollars, build a programmer for a few more, download the MPASM and start making proyects. Perfect for the thousands of experimentors who where waiting for something like this.

samcheetah

Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 672
Helped: 31
Location: Pakistan

22 Jan 2005 6:27 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Bingo600 wrote:

a "uC war" will initiate whenever you talk about compairing between PIC, 8051, AVR or any other microcontroller. its just natural Very Happy

ill tell you how. look you said that AVRs are faster than PICs right???? and thats why you have decided to choose AVRs over PICs. but believe me you usually dont need speed in control applications at all. most of the time the microcontroller is waiting for you to do something or wasting clock cycles. of course there are exceptions where you need speed. but plz dont compare the working of microcontrollers to Intel or AMD microprocessors where you have to run and OS, do multitasking and that type of stuff.

see how that works???? for everything you say for AVR there will be someone to prove it wrong. and then you will say something else and this process will go on. such discussions usually go upto 3-4 pages before the moderators warn the memebers and delete the discussion Very Happy

so what should you do then?? well just do what makes you feel good. if you want to work with AVRs then do so. if you feel that AVRs do the job you want to do then go for it. its just a matter of choice. all microcontrollers can do everything imaginable in one way or the other. so just pick one and start building projects.

have fun

Regnum

Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 264
Helped: 12
Location: Hurlingham

22 Jan 2005 7:30 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Yeah... I agree, selecting a low-end MCU usually is a matter of choice.
Personally, what makes the decision is the feeling I get when I put my hands on the evaluation toolset, and ask myself "how much will I pay for this piece of shit?"

Bingo600

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 239
Helped: 14

22 Jan 2005 11:11 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

samcheetah wrote:

a "uC war" will initiate whenever you talk about compairing between PIC, 8051, AVR or any other microcontroller. its just natural Very Happy

..
..
so what should you do then?? well just do what makes you feel good. if you want to work with AVRs then do so. if you feel that AVRs do the job you want to do then go for it. its just a matter of choice. all microcontrollers can do everything imaginable in one way or the other. so just pick one and start building projects.

have fun

Verry well spoken(written) ...

I do agree Smile

I wonder if one of them are going to release a lowcost mcu with an ethernet PHY
like the Rabbit but , for a PIC/AVR.
But then again ethernet might be a better job for ARM , and i do see a lot of those popping up at low prices.

/Bingo

atferrari

Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 205
Helped: 3
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina

22 Jan 2005 12:07 Re: Other way to see this...

Perhaps, what matters is how you did approach micros.

In my case, I started with the Z80 and I was happy to have so many instructions doing so many things (except brushing teeth...).

Later the 8052 with an also complete set was a joy, even more with the fun of using BASIC.

After so many years inactive, because going at sea for long periods I run across PICs and a reduced set struck me as so nice so I jumped into this train.

After investing (time and efforts) plus an expensive but not fast at all Picstart programmer I will stick to PICs perhaps for some time before looking outside again.

They have loads of erratas, some awful things like "read-modify-write" for output ports but is what I've learnt to live with.

Years ago, I asked one contributor in another forum, about how he selected micros. He is an EE designing for a major company and he didn't talk about preferences. Not at all. He mentioned convenience, availability or performance based on a list of features for each brand.

Even if I tend to feel like I am a PIC fan I find that this is not a religion.

Starting a war on this or about "C and assembler" is wasting time.

Being able to afford more expensive lines I would like to give a try to something on the 16 bits field.

My idea, don't spend time. Choose one and go.

Happy programming to you all!

Buena suerte

Agustín Tomás

Rubi

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Vienna

25 Jan 2005 13:49 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Hi All!

I personally prefer the AVRs especially the ATMega series.
But I also use 8051/52 and verry seldom Pic mcus.

If I want to rebuild a project, then of course I would not convert the original code to fit into an AVR, instead I use the opportunity to broaden my horizon and use the mcu the developer has used, study the code and think is this a better mcu than my loved AVR.

Till yet the answer was no, but time will tell a different story maybe,...

And there is also a special AVR forum which I really like, at least until the made a redesign, somedays ago,...

Cheers
Rubi

Last edited by Rubi on 26 Jan 2005 16:00; edited 1 time in total

tgq

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 305
Helped: 2

26 Jan 2005 15:43 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

as a joke, 2 very good reasons to prefer PICs:
- free samples available (sorry for AVRs)
- huge lots of projects with source code on the internet

swapgo

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 127
Helped: 2

27 Jan 2005 15:42 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Hi

I am a mechanical engineer with less knowledge in microcontrollers
I was able to learn PIC microcontroller .
So you can imagine How simple it will be to learn or to use them.
But yet powerful

Regards
Gopi

virus

Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 42
Helped: 1
Location: Mars

27 Jan 2005 18:14 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Now Microchip change C18 compiler demo policies.
It no longer a demo, instead it is "Student Edition". You can use it even after 60 days period expire.

AbdelHamid

Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 7

28 Jan 2005 7:40 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Well It's a great question
because :
1. Electrical Specification

8051 : 1.6 ma source
PIC : 25 ma source !!

2. Instructions

8051 : 200+
PIC : 35 instructions ( 75 for 18FXX which have CAN ,.......)

3. Peripherals
8051 : UART ,3 * 16bit timers
PIC :
A2D , D2A , PWM , CCP , UART , TIMERS with prescalers,
I2C , PSP , SPI ,.........
+ speicial microcontroller features WDT , BOR , POR , .......

are u still asking why pic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My suggestion to you start working PIC Or AVR immediatly !
contact me if u want resources and software

Ahmed_abdel_hamid(at)hotmail.com

regards,
ahmed

vdaniel

Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 216
Helped: 9

28 Jan 2005 10:50 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

While other manufacturers use lower frequency crystal and then multiplies frequency inside the microcontroller chip to reduce the electromagnethic emission, PIC takes higher frequency and divides it by 4.
I see only one advantage of PIC - it was the first.
I have made some designs with PIC in 1990-ies, but aftewards swithched to others, mainly AVR, and cannot even imagine, what can force me to switch again to PIC.

Varuzhan

admir

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Madrid, Spain

28 Jan 2005 11:49 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

vdaniel wrote:

Not now, look at the new PIC18F series for example, it has internal x4 PLL inside.

And new dsPIC series have x4, x8 and x16 PLL. For those devices if you have for example 6MHz crystal you can internally multiply it x16, reaching 96MHz.

kilroy

Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 35
Helped: 2
Location: Turkey

29 Jan 2005 1:06 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

There is huge knowledge base and easy to do everything...(look http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic106287.html)

Code Warrior

Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 224
Helped: 7

29 Jan 2005 3:21 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Hello,
Every one is talking PIC becoz it is HOT.

Regards.

klpang1

Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 14

29 Jan 2005 5:22 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

Hi all,

why must people interpret lower instructions as better and easier? to me, more instructions means more tools to do a particular work, well, at least one has the choice of not using the 200 - 35 = 165 instructions and do everything in the familiar 35 instructions.

i have use both pic and 8051, well, pic is great for beginner but as i move on, i find 8051 is even better...of course, it still has it's disadvantages...

by the way, it doesn't harm for one to learn extra things.... at least your resume doesn't look so empty....

BuBEE

Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 130
Helped: 5
Location: Thailand

29 Oct 2005 4:08 WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

I thinks it easy to learning and i can find in market easy.

hjamleh

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 27
Helped: 3
Location: Taiwan

29 Oct 2005 17:13 Re: WHY PIC MICROCONTROLLERS

PIC is the best thing happened on the earth, it is easy to use and available everywhere, I think the most thing that made PIC powerfull is the Microchip policy by expanding their market on the world... you can go to their website www.microchip.com and see how it is usefull with many application notes and seminars http://techtrain.microchip.com/webseminars/WebSemCListArch.aspx , samples offered, and the diversity of Kits...etc

It is nice to use PIC, and it is my favourite:D Very Happy